Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Yeah, it is a bit surreal to watch a bunch of men mock and belittle women's life experiences and deny them any agency in who they get to permit in their intimate spaces or even socialise with.
Misogynistic behaviour 101. There have been a few on this forum. Warp12 (now banned) comes to mind.

Frankly, I think we are seeing here for the first time in a long time, what it is like to debate this issue with people who have been completely captured by gender ideology.
 
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That's actually the interest in the thread. How these guys minds work. How some people can be so captured by the cause that nothing matters but that the trans identifying men should have everything they want.
 
Ya and we voted in Agent Orange. We don't exactly have good judgement these days, yeah?
Meaningless and irrelevant..... Liberals didn't vote him in.

There are, however, plenty of moderate Centre-Liberals who consider this is probably this only thing conservatives have got correct (even if it is for somewhat different reasons).
 
That's actually the interest in the thread. How these guys minds work. How some people can be so captured by the cause that nothing matters but that the trans identifying men should have everything they want....
... and completely at the expense of women, about whom these captured individuals don't give a rat rat's arse!
 
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Zactly. It's a men's rights movement.

Women in Britain finally became equal to men in law in the early 1990s. It was a good 25 years I suppose. Then trans happened.
 
And somehow these situations are made worse if a transwoman is peeing in one of the stalls.
Quite a striking failure of imagination and empathy here.

It shouldn't be all that hard to picture why females wouldn't want (non-passing) males around when attending to such things.
 
Quite a striking failure of imagination and empathy here.

It shouldn't be all that hard to picture why females wouldn't want (non-passing) males around when attending to such things.
Why tho? Why would someone want strange bio women over a transwoman? That transwoman might have medical training, or multiple sisters and actually know much more than any other woman around. But she should be kicked out over some 1940s sexist thinking? How far backwards are we moving?
 
Feel free to educate me about the politics of your country, just don't pretend it's misogynist men versus women when all the women I ask are not bothered by transwomen in women's public bathrooms.
What was the operative definition of transwoman? Someone who has physically transitioned? Or anyone who self-declares?

Do you distinguish? Do you consider anyone who self-declares as a woman?
 
That's actually the interest in the thread. How these guys minds work. How some people can be so captured by the cause that nothing matters but that the trans identifying men should have everything they want.
The opposite, actually. Men are wondering why you are so hateful and ostracizing against one of your own, and why you are so happy to discriminate against them.

See, you keep forgetting that we think of them as women, not men. You are being hateful to women, from our POV.
 
That's actually the interest in the thread. How these guys minds work. How some people can be so captured by the cause that nothing matters but that the trans identifying men should have everything they want.
Have you noticed it's always the transwomen in public bathrooms case they glom onto, probably the least concerning of all the situations affected by self ID. It never seems to occur to them to ask their legion of female acquaintances how they'd feel about being joined in the women's shower or changing room by a biological male who might easily be their stalker, or the flasher from the common. Or how they feel about being subjected by a male to a strip search, or counselled by one at the rape crisis centre. Or how their granny might feel about being intimately examined by an obvious male, despite requesting a female nurse or doctor.
 
Have you noticed it's always the transwomen in public bathrooms case they glom onto, probably the least concerning of all the situations affected by self ID. It never seems to occur to them to ask their legion of female acquaintances how they'd feel about being joined in the women's shower or changing room by a biological male who might easily be their stalker, or the flasher from the common. Or how they feel about being subjected by a male to a strip search, or counselled by one at the rape crisis centre. Or how their granny might feel about being intimately examined by an obvious male, despite requesting a female nurse or doctor.
We have, and have discussed it at some length.

Eta: fleshed out, to refresh your memory:

-Rest rooms are the most common, everyday interaction that virtually all of us do and are familiar with. That's why it comes up.

-the women's shower: I asked about this long ago- how many of y'all are al getting naked together in gang showers? It's really not a thing in the States. Guys generally don't do so at all, nor the gals.

-changing rooms: I get changed on the public street, in and out of wetsuits without showing any inappropriate skin. So do women surfers. Not sure why you are intent on a little go-go dancing while you get changed. I get changed for training while sparring. Same thing: I'm not standing around twirling my cock for the audience. It's a reasonably discrete affair. And if you are so modest (or immodest) about getting changed in public: don't do so. Adjust your lifestyle if you are so freaked out. It's not a necessity.

-criminals in the locker room: harassment can be prosecuted and dealt with just like we do outside of a women's space.

-strip searches: not much of a daily concern either, what with not living in a Supermax prison. If you asked me, I'd be much more comfortable with a female performing one on me than a male, but that's another story.

-rape crisis centers over here are staffed with male and female workers. Because males get raped, too, especially transwomen and victims of incest.

-granny's request: again, over here the majority of gynecologists are male. I've been examined by docs and nurses of both sexes while in the altogether. It's not a sexy time. No one really cares. Granny needs counseling for her weird sex hangups. You think she would be worried about a boob peeking out if male EMTs were pulling her out of a burning car? I've actually been that male EMT and I can assure you it's not a modest sexy time either. No one cares in health care and medical emergencies.

Something else y'all seem to gloss over: why do you think transwomen... not the imaginary pervy freaks, just a transwoman... wouldn't want to use the men's rest rooms? Think she might get harassed and assaulted at a far greater rate than your imaginary flashers would intrude, pretending to be women? I ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ guarantee it.
 
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Why would someone want strange bio women over a transwoman?
Why apply the adjective strange to only one group here? Presumably everyone in that situation is a stranger to one another, but only the trans woman is a stranger to the periodic inconveniences and embarrassments of menstruation.
...transwoman might have medical training, or multiple sisters and actually know much more than any other woman around.
It should tell you something that you reached for statistically improbable scenarios.
 
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Why apply the adjective strange to only one group here? Presumably everyone in that situation is a stranger to one another, but only the trans woman is a stranger to the periodic inconveniences and embarrassments of menstruation.

It should tell you something that you reached for statistically improbable scenarios.
So instead it is superior to assume the worst about a transwoman that has done nothing to you? What do you think a transwoman would do if asked to leave during such a situation? I mean, since you have so many stats available. You think she would be an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ and refuse, because that's how dem trannys are? You seem quite inclined to assume the worst of a transwoman, and nothing but angelic bio women in our hypothetical rest room.

Eta: 'strange' applies to both, because it highlights that such women will trust a bio female more than a transwoman. If you are not prejudiced, you would see them as roughly equal in trustworthiness.
 
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So instead it is superior to assume the worst about a transwoman that has done nothing to you?
No worse than they would assume if you or I strolled in, right?
What do you think a transwoman would do if asked to leave during such a situation?
What would you do if asked to leave?
If you are not prejudiced, you would see them as roughly equal in trustworthiness.
Would it be prejudiced to ask you (or me) to leave as well?
 
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Would you stop watching if they included some transwomen who did experience a masculine puberty?
Okay, a bit behind. Do you realise that this thread started over this very issue? Biological women were being hurt (in contact sports like rugby and boxing) or were forced to face unfair physical advantages due to men who underwent puberty but insisted on competing with women through magical self ID.

Thankfully most sporting organisations have changed their policies and sportswomen are being more strongly supported (but not universally, sadly).

Why do you want women being hurt and/or disadvantaged?
 
No worse than they would assume if you or I strolled in, right?
No. A transwoman answering an everyday call of nature is vastly different than a big bio male strolling in. Again, I live in an Open Doors state. Unless there is a vast conspiracy afoot to stop people from posting about violators on social media and crime stats, it doesn't really happen. But transwomen *do* use the facilities uneventfully all day. People are better than you imagine.
What would you do if asked to leave?
I'd ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ leave. Why wouldn't I? Someone desperately needs privacy, ya give it to them without ado. That goes for anyone, anywhere, not even trans related.
Would it be prejudiced to ask you (or me) to leave as well?
See above.
 
I doubt whether the women posting in this thread will readily agree.
Some men, too. Whether the agreement is reasonable or... let's say less so... has perpetuated this ongoing discussion.
Sounds like a good rule of thumb. (y)
I kinda think so. Back to the meta question: is privacy from anyone born male (although trans now) a desperate need for them to go away? Obviously, I don't think so. But they do.

I mean, I get it to a large degree. Men are bigger and badder, statistically. I am rarely in the position of feeling like I could be overpowered. Not so for almost any woman, so I sympathize with the belief that they are under greater threat at all times. Bio males are in fact the majority of attackers and sexual assaulters

By the same token, I don't think the overwhelming majority of transwomen are... you know... like other males. They are self declared at the feminine end of the spectrum. The one I am closest to is definitely indistinguishable from any other woman, in appearance and behavior.
 
Okay, a bit behind. Do you realise that this thread started over this very issue? Biological women were being hurt (in contact sports like rugby and boxing) or were forced to face unfair physical advantages due to men who underwent puberty but insisted on competing with women through magical self ID.

Thankfully most sporting organisations have changed their policies and sportswomen are being more strongly supported (but not universally, sadly).

Why do you want women being hurt and/or disadvantaged?

Because they're men. I know, #notallmen
 
Meaningless and irrelevant..... Liberals didn't vote him in.
Right. Conservatives did, as the majority. So when you see a majority in both voting and trans views... hm, what to think?
There are, however, plenty of moderate Centre-Liberals who consider this is probably this only thing conservatives have got correct (even if it is for somewhat different reasons).
The somewhat different reasons are what makes this interesting. There's a spectrum, from the practical to the practically nazi. The latter is gaining ground on this thread, I'm seeing.
 

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