Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[theprestige]

I have a dream, that one day there will be no more segregation, but that we will have communal spaces and private spaces. Cats and dogs, living together. Unless they need some privacy.

But sex segregation is useful, and even pro-social, in some situations. Sports, for example. Maybe your dream is that there will be no more binary sex? They made a short film about your dream:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0274518/

Gay space aliens eliminate all females on Earth, and educate the males about the wonders of homosexual civilization.

So once again misogyny rears its ugly head, even in post-sex utopia.

 

[Rolfe]

There is nothing wrong in principle, and quite a lot right, with allowing certain defined groups of people to socialise on an exclusive basis. At the moment, in quite a few countries, women are not allowed to have any women-only social clubs, societies, meetings or whatever, that exclude men who want to be in them. And that includes groups specifically for lesbians. I can see why the men who want to be in these groups are in favour of this, but I struggle to see why other men are quite so vehement about supporting them.

Yes there is a problem. In the past, single-sex gentlemen's clubs have been used to exclude women from political and business influence and decision-making. It's understandable that men want to go golfing or even just have dinner in an all-male group. No problem with that. But then they want to make deals and come to major political decisions while they're doing that, which is detrimental to women's full involvement in these decision processes. I get it.

But to go from protesting that women are shut out of critical decision-making by some gentlemen-only clubs to saying that lesbian dating apps and lesbian meet-ups can't exclude men is quite a leap.

 

[d4m10n]

Lesbian dating apps, you say? Time for a lawsuit.

Segregating by sex (even in dating apps) is just like Jim Crow.

 

[Mycroft]

It's not my party any more. I don't consider it's stance on trans issues to be particularly right-wing. It's turning into the legendary Tartan Tories on just about everything else though. Land reform ditched, opposition to nuclear weapons ditched, freeports, cosying up to corporations, corruption. They can do one, frankly. My resignation letter had about 20 points on it, of which their contempt for women's rights wasn't even in the top ten.

Your party was the Scottish National Party?

Did you actually explain to your random sample of six women that by "transwomen" you meant adult men who had all their male bits intact? Because many surveys have shown that a lot of people think that a transwoman is a woman who wants to be a man.

I explained it was an online discussion about trans-people, that I was told many women objected to transwomen using women's public restrooms, and I asked them how they felt about transwomen using women's public restrooms.

One woman said everything happens in stalls so you're not likely to see anything, so I think she understood the transwoman might have a penis. Another woman said if a person were committed enough to wear makeup, so she probably understood as well. Other women I don't remember their commentary or they didn't give as much detail.

Edited to add: I'm certain a third person understood we were talking about transwomen and not transmen. In our discussion she thought the fear-mongering was uncalled for.

 

[Thermal]

Why do you think that is something worth dreaming about? Is there no value in allowing cats to have some space to socialise with other cats, and dogs some space to socialise with other dogs? Can there be no cat space where a dog may not go in at will? If not, why not? Why would these spaces be something you would want to outlaw?

Socialize? It's a place to void you bowels and/or bladder, clean up and get back to socializing with your ass clean and pants up.

What the hell are you guys doing in there? Talking through the stalls about your kids while wiping your assess? Take a tip from the gents and socialize at the bar like civilized people.

 

[Mycroft]

What the hell are you guys doing in there? Talking through the stalls about your kids while wiping your assess? Take a tip from the gents and socialize at the bar like civilized people.

Apparently there is a surprisingly good chance of walking into someone having a miscarriage or a messy period emergency. And somehow these situations are made worse if a transwoman is peeing in one of the stalls.

 

[Thermal]

Apparently there is a surprisingly good chance of walking into someone having a miscarriage or a messy period emergency. And somehow these situations are made worse if a transwoman is peeing in one of the stalls.

Seems like a transwoman might be just as helpful or compassionate in such a situation? Oh, that's right. They're all pervs and freaks.

 

[Mycroft]

Seems like a transwoman might be just as helpful or compassionate in such a situation? Oh, that's right. They're all pervs and freaks.

They are only defined by their penises. At least the ones who still have them. I'm not sure about the others, I'm sure they're unacceptable for some reason.

 

[Thermal]

They are only defined by their penises. At least the ones who still have them. I'm not sure about the others, I'm sure they're unacceptable for some reason.

Maybe because they freqently yell "KEEP IT DOWN OUT THERE FOR CHRISSAKE"?

 

[smartcooky]

You want to portray this as misogynist men versus women, but women who aren't anti-trans have no problem with transwomen using the bathroom. This issue is clearly not men vs women, but conservative versus liberal.

Wrong.
I am a politically Liberal voter. In New Zealand I have always voted Labour (Socialist) and never voted National (Tory/Conservative). If I was American, I would be a Democrat. Ask anyone in this thread such as @theprestige and @Ziggurat and they will tell you I oppose them on most of their political worldviews. However, on this issue, I caucus with conservatives, and I am far from alone in that. Those who agree with your assertion that transwomen and women are one and the same, reside mostly in the radical left wing fringes of the Labour - in this party country, we call them "The Loony Left". I consider them a nuisance as they damage the party's credibility, allowing the Right to use the issue as a cudgel.

 

[Mycroft]

Wrong.
I am a politically Liberal voter. In New Zealand I have always voted Labour (Socialist) and never voted National (Tory/Conservative). If I was American, I would be a Democrat. Ask anyone in this thread such as @theprestige and @Ziggurat and they will tell you I oppose them on most of their political worldviews. However, on this issue, I caucus with conservatives, and I am far from alone in that. Those who agree with your assertion that transwomen and women are one and the same, reside mostly in the radical left wing fringes of the Labour - in this party country, we call them "The Loony Left". I consider them a nuisance as they damage the party's credibility, allowing the Right to use the issue as a cudgel.

You're not disputing what I said, you're affirming it. This is a conservative issue, and you are a liberal except for this issue.

 

[Thermal]

You're not disputing what I said, you're affirming it. This is a conservative issue, and you are a liberal except for this issue.

I was staring a bit about how you could be 'wrong' saying it was a conservative v liberal issue... when he said he caucused with conservatives on the issue...

 

[Mycroft]

I was staring a bit about how you could be 'wrong' saying it was a conservative v liberal issue... when he said he caucused with conservatives on the issue...

Don't forget the gaslighting. Being told identifying it as a conservative/liberal issue marks me as a USAian when it's the same in her country.

 

[smartcooky]

Don't forget the gaslighting. Being told identifying it as a conservative/liberal issue marks me as a USAian when it's the same in her his country.

FTFY

 

[Mycroft]

FTFY

I was referring to Rolfe, but I suppose it could apply to you too.

 

[smartcooky]

You're not disputing what I said, you're affirming it. This is a conservative issue, and you are a liberal except for this issue.

Don't forget the gaslighting. Being told identifying it as a conservative/liberal issue marks me as a USAian when it's the same in her country.

Don't forget the gaslighting. Being told identifying it as a conservative/liberal issue marks me as a USAian when it's the same in her country.

This pretty much indicates that is far from being a purely political issue....

Americans have grown more supportive of restrictions for trans people in recent years

Two-thirds of U.S. adults favor laws and policies that require trans athletes to compete on teams that match their sex assigned at birth.

www.pewresearch.org

A new Pew Research Center survey finds that majorities of U.S. adults favor or strongly favor laws and policies that:​

​

Require trans athletes to compete on teams that match their sex assigned at birth (66%)​

Ban health care professionals from providing care related to gender transitions for minors (56%)​

Its pretty obvious to me that support for restricting transgender people to have them stay in their lane has wide support across both sides of the political divide.

Sports: 4½ to 1 against.
Medicare for transition 4 to 1 against
Teaching gender ID in elementary schools: 1½ to 1 against
Allow "wrong" bathroom use: 2 to 1 against
Insurance to cover gender transitions: 2½ to 1 against

 

[smartcooky]

I was referring to Rolfe, but I suppose it could apply to you too.

Come off it pal. You were replying to Thermal's post about what I said.

You're not very good at remembering what you say in your own posts are you?

 

[Thermal]

This pretty much indicates that is far from being a purely political issue....

Americans have grown more supportive of restrictions for trans people in recent years

Two-thirds of U.S. adults favor laws and policies that require trans athletes to compete on teams that match their sex assigned at birth.

www.pewresearch.org

A new Pew Research Center survey finds that majorities of U.S. adults favor or strongly favor laws and policies that:​

​

Require trans athletes to compete on teams that match their sex assigned at birth (66%)​

Ban health care professionals from providing care related to gender transitions for minors (56%)​

Its pretty obvious to me that support for restricting transgender people to have them stay in their lane has wide support across both sides of the political divide.

Sports: 4½ to 1 against.
Medicare for transition 4 to 1 against
Teaching gender ID in elementary schools: 1½ to 1 against
Allow "wrong" bathroom use: 2 to 1 against
Insurance to cover gender transitions: 2½ to 1 against

Ya and we voted in Agent Orange. We don't exactly have good judgement these days, yeah?

 

[Mycroft]

Come off it pal. You were replying to Thermal's post about what I said.

You're not very good at remembering what you say in your own posts are you?

I was referring to Rolfe while replying to Thermal.

This conversation can't be real. I'm either dreaming or being punked somehow.

 

[Rolfe]

Yeah, it is a bit surreal to watch a bunch of men mock and belittle women's life experiences and deny them any agency in who they get to permit in their intimate spaces or even socialise with.