Merged Due process in the US

[Clutch Cargo]

How are the courts going to remedy illegal deportations?

The only way to remedy illegal deportations is by way of the courts. If you have been deported illegally you ought to have the oportunity to prove you were legally in the country.

 

[johnny karate]

I wonder if anyone actually finds this reasoning compelling? Ok, its not a crime, it is still illegal and there is a penalty for it. Namely being deported and barred from re-entry for a period of time. Saying its not a crime is a distinction without difference.

Heard an interview with John Bolton, if JB is more concerned about human rights and due process than you, you've got a problem, especially if you are the POTUS. Actually, we've got a huge problem not the POTUS.....

Yeah, that problem is called “fascism”.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

... deportation is not a punishment.

Deportation is most definitely a punishment.

 

[Hercules56]

What gives you confidence they can remedy it?

Years of experience.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

What gives you confidence they can remedy it?

A fair question.

 

[johnny karate]

The only way to remedy illegal deportations is by way of the courts. If you have been deported illegally you ought to have the oportunity to prove you were legally in the country.

“Ought to” doesn’t carry the weight is used to. I’m not asking for academic purposes. I’m asking in the context of our current reality.

 

[Hercules56]

Deportation is most definitely a punishment.

I disagree completely. Its simply an administrative procedure, associated with a non-crime for non-citizens who have no actual right to be here.

 

[johnny karate]

Years of experience.

In what?

 

[Hercules56]

In what?

Observation.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Years of experience.

I have it the courts are going to order a military invasion of El Salvador to free them, it is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[Hercules56]

I have it the courts are going to order a military invasion of El Salvador to free them, it is the only thing that makes sense.

There are other, much more reasonable non-strawman alternatives.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

The only way to remedy illegal deportations is by way of the courts. If you have been deported illegally you ought to have the oportunity to prove you were legally in the country.

“Ought to” doesn’t carry the weight is used to...... I’m asking in the context of our current reality.

True-true.

 

[TomB]

I always carry my drivers license with me. Its REAL ID so proves Im a citizen. Or at least a legal resident.

My driver's license is not a REAL ID. Neither is my wife's.
If either of us are stopped, we will have ID, but nothing to show we are citizens. But then, we are white so it's unlikely we will be stopped.

Me stepsons, however, are half Mexican. And my grandchildren. and my daughter-in-law. Their father is a naturalized citizen and has been since the 80s or 90s. As a citizen. should he be carrying more documentation than I am?

Given that you cannot tell by sight, I think it is necessary that ICE demonstrate that someone is here illegally before deporting them or even transporting them to another location. I also think that this demonstration must be to a judge. ICE shouldn't be able to make that determination independently.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There are other much more reasonable alternatives.

Your boundless faith in the Trump administration is a sight to behold.

The courts can't do a single thing because they have no jurisdiction in a foreign country. The best they could do is a civil judgement to help the wife.

ALso the courts blocked these deportations, they went ahead anyway. But next time the courts will do something concrete surely.

 

[Hercules56]

My driver's license is not a REAL ID. Neither is my wife's.
If either of us are stopped, we will have ID, but nothing to show we are citizens. But then, we are white so it's unlikely we will be stopped.

Me stepsons, however, are half Mexican. And my grandchildren. and my daughter-in-law. Their father is a naturalized citizen and has been since the 80s or 90s. As a citizen. should he be carrying more documentation than I am?...

I don't see your point. Why would being half-Mexican make one more likely to be stopped by the police?

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I have it the courts are going to order a military invasion of El Salvador to free them, it is the only thing that makes sense.

As much sense as invading Irak to bring Democracy.

 

[Hercules56]

Your boundless faith in the Trump administration is a sight to behold.

The courts can't do a single thing because they have no jurisdiction in a foreign country. The best they could do is a civil judgement to help the wife.

Let's see what the courts have to say about it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

A

Let's see what the courts have to say about it.

They told the administration to not send the military aircraft there, and were ignored. The courts can't do anything even if they wanted to.

 

[Hercules56]

A

They told the administration to not send the military aircraft there, and were ignored. The courts can't do anything even if they wanted to.

Let's see how this plays out. Might surprise you.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I don't see your point. Why would being half-Mexican make one more likely to be stopped by the police?

There's no such thing as "half-Mexican".