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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Orphia Nay said:
Becuase it's only an even tinier percentage of transsexuals who have attacked women, whereas way more transsexuals have been attacked by men.
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What's your threshold for the number of females that can be attacked by transgender identifying males and still be counted as acceptable collateral damage?

Why are you willing to transfer risk onto females in order to protect a few males from the risk of being assaulted by other males? Especially when females are ALREADY assaulted at enormously higher rates?
 
It's kind of depressing that at this point in the debate stanfr still thinks these are irrational fears. They're not. They're entirely rational concerns. The reasons why there are separate women's sports leagues are well understood, by anyone who wants to understand.

The entirely predictable harm to women that any rational person could easily predict has come to pass, more than once, wherever these conventions are dispensed with.
 
Trausti said:
In either case, it's still men doing the attacking.
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But but but... we have to protect the male victims! It's okay if that increases the number of female victims, females are just more used to being victimized by males, after all. They won't even notice, it's such a tiny increase in the number of males who are attacking them...
 
Orphia Nay said:
It seems Trausti and Ron disagree.

But thanks for agreeing with me. I don't have any rules suggestions for how to police people with penises entering women's spaces. That's why the debate goes round and round. Nobody knows how to police it other than how it's always been.
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I have a rules suggestion: They're not allowed. Very simple, very straightforward.

If some extremely few males are able to mimic female characteristics well enough to not be noticed, well... sometimes the thing that looks like a leaf is actually a katydid. But it only looks like a leaf until it starts walking away, because leaves don't have legs.
 
Orphia Nay said:
I don't see how that's different to how it's always been (the highlight).
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Seriously?

Alex Drummond and Eddie Izzard self-identify as trans. But neither of them comes even remotely close to passing as female in any way, they're both blatantly and obviously male. But because they've said magic words, females are expected to participate in their wish-fulfillment and pretend to ignore that they're both 100% all the way male and just let them take over our single-sex spaces... and you don't think that's any different from how it was in the past?
 
d4m10n said:
Quick question for the gendercrits here at ISF: What good can it possibly do to legally ban the first transgender member of Congress from women’s rooms on Capitol Hill?
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It creates a clear message that will hopefully trickle down.

In the US, a lot of the privacy violations that have occurred have been initiated at the top - first by Obama, then by Biden. They've involved executive interpretations of the term "sex" in existing law and policy to include gender identity. It has been from the federal government that this was promulgated, especially with interpretations to Title IX and to Equal Opportunity legislation.

In addition, it helps to make the absurdity of the demand clear. This transgender identified male congressperson is prohibited from using female-designated restrooms because they are not female. But if you actually read the policy, McBride has access to the single-use restrooms that each member of congress has in their offices as well as several unisex facilities that are available throughout. McBride is prohibited from using female single-sex restrooms, but they are NOT forced to use male single-sex restrooms. They have many other options available to them.

At some point, shouldn't we be asking why it's so important for transgender identified males to specifically access female-only facilities, even when single-use and unisex facilities are readily available?
 
Orphia Nay said:
Thanks for typing that up, sorry to trouble you.

Just wondering what TRAa expect to happen with toilets/change rooms. All unisex?
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So far as I can tell, they do NOT want unisex or single-use facilities. They want to be entitled to override female boundaries and violate female consent. They don't want unisex rooms, they want to be able to access specifically FEMALE rooms over the objection of females.
 
That's been my exact journey over the course of this thread. ETA: To Rolfe's comment about where people were at five years ago versus now.

If McBride can thrive while using the mens' restrooms, the mens' changing rooms, then he doesn't to be in the womens' spaces at all. Problem solved.

If, on the other hand, McBride cannot thrive while confined to men's spaces, then I want to see medical receipts.
 
theprestige said:
If they get their jollies listening to women tinkle in the adjoining stall while they do the same, fine. I'm sure there are lots of women who do the same.
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While I concede there might be some very, very few females who get aroused listening to other females urinate, I assure you that it's far from "lots".

With the single exception of submissive fetishism, paraphilias are overwhelmingly a male phenomenon. Even domination is male-driven. Dominatices are almost never the ones deriving sexual arousal and satisfaction from the interaction - they perform a role that allows a submissive male to enact their sexual fantasies.
 
Emily's Cat said:
While I concede there might be some very, very few females who get aroused listening to other females urinate, I assure you that it's far from "lots".

With the single exception of submissive fetishism, paraphilias are overwhelmingly a male phenomenon. Even domination is male-driven. Dominatices are almost never the ones deriving sexual arousal and satisfaction from the interaction - they perform a role that allows a submissive male to enact their sexual fantasies.
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Fair enough.
 
theprestige said:
That's been my exact journey over the course of this thread. ETA: To Rolfe's comment about where people were at five years ago versus now.

If McBride can thrive while using the mens' restrooms, the mens' changing rooms, then he doesn't to be in the womens' spaces at all. Problem solved.

If, on the other hand, McBride cannot thrive while confined to men's spaces, then I want to see medical receipts.
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McBride doesn't need to go anywhere near the men's spaces. McBride will have his own office same as all the other elected representatives, and that office will have its own private toilet. Also, there are mixed-sex toilets in all parts of the building in addition to the usual Ladies and Gents. But despite what most people would regard as an ample provision of facilities to enable him to steer clear of the men's bathrooms (where he might encounter a sideways glance or perhaps a snigger, which make him unsafe, as opposed to the sideways glances or sniggers in the Ladies of course), he is absolutely determined to be allowed into the Ladies. It's cruelty, it's discrimination, it's not respectful, fill in the rest.

Think about that for a few minutes.

It has also been pointed out that for ninety-four years, female elected representatives had to manage with just the private toilets in their own offices, as all the public facilities in the building were for men only.

Think about that for a few more minutes.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
I found that too. I can accept that unisex changing rooms are more likely to trigger sexual assaults. I'm struggling to understand why a transsexual occasionally being in the communal space of women's toilets with women is such a risk or the thin edge of the wedge.
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It shouldn't be that hard of a struggle. Just start with "What constitutes a transsexual, and how do you tell that they're transsexual?"

Does Alex Drummond count as a transsexual? What about Eddie Izzard? What about Darren Meragee? Jessica (Jonathan) Yaniv?

Where do you draw the line? Does a male only count as transsexual if they've had a complete penectomy and orchiectomy, and if so... who does the checking? What if they've had facial feminization surgery but have a fully intact and functional penis and testicles - do they count as transsexual? What if they have a full beard and haven't taken any estrogen at all?

At some point you end up with a situation where literally any male who puts on some chapstick and says the magic phrase "I'm trans" has to be counted as being transsexual.

And at that point, you've opened up the female facilities to any man who wants to be there, and you've simultaneously removed the ability of females to object to this gross violation of our boundaries and consent.
 
We're already at, indeed past, that point. I hope today's developments (my birthday present, my precioussss) might be the start of a u-turn.
 
stanfr said:
That you don't realize that the lunatic right, people who think Qanon is legit, post thousands of fake videos is extremely telling.
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How many of these do you think are fakes?
terfisaslur.com

TERF is a slur

Documenting the abuse, harassment and misogyny of transgender identity politics
terfisaslur.com terfisaslur.com

How many of the reported cases of males threatening or assaulting females do you think are fake? Is there any number at which you'll stop and maybe take this seriously, and share some of that bottomless compassion for the females who are negatively affected by your desire to be kind to males?
 
Emily's Cat said:
But if you actually read the policy, McBride has access to the single-use restrooms that each member of congress has in their offices as well as several unisex facilities that are available throughout. McBride is prohibited from using female single-sex restrooms, but they are NOT forced to use male single-sex restrooms. They have many other options available to them.
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There are two policies now, the one I linked earlier and the one dropped by the Speaker today.

Which one did you actually read?
 
stanfr said:
Have you had any friends who are transsexuals? I'm just curious. I haven't had many, but I have had a few. One I have to cut out of my life because she started ranting about killing Muslims. So she had other issues besides gender dysphoria. But it helps to have some real life perspective, as opposed to forming your beliefs based on what you read on the internet.
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I have two family members who identify as trans, half a dozen coworkers, a handful of acquaintances, and a couple who I consider to be friends.

Of those... there are maybe three that I think genuinely have mental distress and actually truly believe they should have been born the opposite sex. Two of those understand and recognize that their feelings and beliefs about it don't change reality.

Most of them are very nice people, most are fairly personable. All but one are males. And even those that are close relatives who I dearly love... I don't think they should be using the facilities set aside for the opposite sex.
 
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