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"Evolution is only a theory" stickers...

Should there be bible and non-bible rooms then, as there are smoking (ashtrays present) and non-smoking (no ashtrays) rooms?
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Should there be bible and non-bible rooms then, as there are smoking (ashtrays present) and non-smoking (no ashtrays) rooms?
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Perhaps. Or even better, bible and non-bible hotels. I think we still have a few teetotaler hotels left in DK, run by Christians.
 
I've spent a far amount of time in hotel rooms. I've seen several Gideon Bibles that had an introductory page that listed several "personal issues" and the bible passage that could help you with said issue. On that page was a statement that said if the bible was of interest to you, you could take it.

On several boring nights, I've went through and listed some more passages to that introductory page, pointing out some of the things that most xians try and forget. Yes, it is petty, but I do get a chuckle out of it. I would love to put some bible warning stickers on those bibles. Childish? Yup. Guilty.

Do the hotels have the right to put bibles in their rooms? Yup. Do we have the right to leave stickers? If the bibles are complementary, yup! Otherwise, no.
 
Every hotel I stayed in, I didn't believe that someone was forcing me to read or consider anything.

Some people must view everything they disagree with as a threat of Biblical proportions?
 
Imrational said:
Do we have the right to leave stickers? If the bibles are complementary, yup!
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Perhaps I have an unusual way of looking at rights, but as I suggested before, an offer to let you take the Bible home with you would not be equivalent to an offer to let you place a sticker in the Bible and leave it for the next person. Do you think you'd have the right to place a sticker over the label of a bottle of complimentary shampoo and leave it where the hotel staff might possibly overlook the fact that it was no longer hotel property but a piece of your abandoned property? Both the hotel and the Gideons would have legitimate grounds for objecting to our leaving stickers in the Bibles without express permission.
 
I think that it is possible to get too worked up about these things.

From a purist point of view, Claus is absolutely right - the Gideon organisation should not have the right to pollute atheist hotel rooms with their infernal propoganda. (On the other hand, hotels certainly have the right to fill their rooms with whatever legal items they wish - it is, after all, private property).

However, how far do we take this? Should the Amish conference attendees get upset at the broadband internet connections available? Should teetotallers (like me, say) be angered by the alcohol in the minibar? Should diabetics be incensed that the minibar is filled with tempting-but-dangerous chocolate?

These are all reasonable questions. The answer isn't by any means clearly "no", but it is likely that most people are not going to react in an extreme fashion even if they are an Amish diabetic teetotalling atheist. With that said, it's certainly everyone's right to be offended, but I would suggest the most appropriate reaction is to fill out the little "how did you enjoy your stay?" forms that the hotels have. Presumably if enough atheists said that they'd prefer a room without a Bible in it, the option would be presented.
 
CFLarsen said:
OK, how would that work? ;)
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An Amish atheist? Well, I'm guessing that since there have been atheists amongst even the most theocratic historical societies, that there must be one or two amongst our technologically challenged friends.

Then again, I'm an Aussie. I've never even thrown an icecream at an Amish, and I suspect watching Harrison Ford in "Witness" doesn't really constitute education. :)
 
ceo_esq said:
Do you think you'd have the right to place a sticker over the label of a bottle of complimentary shampoo and leave it where the hotel staff might possibly overlook the fact that it was no longer hotel property but a piece of your abandoned property? Both the hotel and the Gideons would have legitimate grounds for objecting to our leaving stickers in the Bibles without express permission.
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What, if you don't use the complimentary shampoo it's reused for the next visitor :eek:?!? Man, I wonder what gross things previous occupants put in there!:o

But yes, I think you could say that placing a sticker on/inside the book makes it your abandoned property. If the hotel wishes to remove it, they can. Waste of a good sticker though:D
 
What I hate is they way they always leave wardrobes in the room. Like we're all Narnianists or something.
 
CFLarsen said:
Why not?

If they shove their beliefs in my face, I have a right to shove mine in theirs.
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Perhaps you should do what the Gideons do (instead of damaging someone else's property by placing a sticker in it...no matter how witty that sticker is); purchase or acquire thousands of copies of your favorite book on skepticism and ask hotel chains to place the book in their nightstands. It may take a tremendous amount of effort and you may not succeed but if it's that important to you that a business not have religious material in a drawer (or at least present other points of view) you should try.
 
SixSixSix said:
An Amish atheist? Well, I'm guessing that since there have been atheists amongst even the most theocratic historical societies, that there must be one or two amongst our technologically challenged friends.

Then again, I'm an Aussie. I've never even thrown an icecream at an Amish, and I suspect watching Harrison Ford in "Witness" doesn't really constitute education. :)
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Speaking as one who has lived around Amish and Mennonites his whole life, I highly doubt there's any such thing as an "Amish atheist". To the Amish there is no seperation between religious and secular - everything has religious connotations. An atheist would choose to leave the community rather than live plain.

For example: everyone knows that the Amish don't use buttons, but do you know why? It's because buttons can be ornamental as well as functional, and to wear anything ornamental would tempt the wearer into the sins of vanity and pride. An atheist would have to forsake everything he considered true and live his whole life in the closet (so to speak) to remain within the Amish community.
 
Imrational said:
But yes, I think you could say that placing a sticker on/inside the book makes it your abandoned property. If the hotel wishes to remove it, they can.
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In that case, you ought to bring to the hotel's attention that you've claimed (assuming this can rightfully be done) and abandoned the copy of the Bible, which has now been defaced by a sticker. Otherwise they are likely to overlook the fact that it's yours and needs to be replaced, just as if you had tampered unobtrusively with another replaceable amenity, or left personal property in a hard-to-notice place (say, rubbish wedged behind the headboard). One way or another, the hotel is entitled to reasonably fair notice (where not otherwise obvious to a casual observer) of what's going on.
 
Genesius said:
Speaking as one who has lived around Amish and Mennonites his whole life, I highly doubt there's any such thing as an "Amish atheist". To the Amish there is no seperation between religious and secular - everything has religious connotations. An atheist would choose to leave the community rather than live plain.
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As I say, my entire knowledge of the Amish is based on a few scenes from Witness, so I'm happy to bow to superior knowledge here.

At the risk of inciting ire, I recall a thread previously on whether or not the term "atheist Jew" was an oxymoron. The basis was that some people regard Jewishness as a racial description (in which case you can be a Christian Jew, Hindu Jew, or whatever) and others as a religious description (in which case you can only be a "Jewish Jew"). I am aware that I am oversimplifying this - my point is merely to get to this question: do any people formerly part of an Amish community refer to themselves as Amish after leaving it? Or would they be ex-Amish instead?
 
CFLarsen said:
Perhaps. Or even better, bible and non-bible hotels. I think we still have a few teetotaler hotels left in DK, run by Christians.
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I think I side with you on this issue (not the segregated hotels bit).

I can’t quite put my finger on it, but there is something slightly irritating about a bible in the desk draw of a hotel.
Perhaps it the presumption, or some sort of stealth evangelism, it just does not feel quite right.
It has similar issues to the 10 commandments monument in the court house, i.e. in a public place, (and a hotel should qualify as such) one has the expectation of equality, and it feels diminished.
 
SixSixSix said:
As I say, my entire knowledge of the Amish is based on a few scenes from Witness, so I'm happy to bow to superior knowledge here.

At the risk of inciting ire, I recall a thread previously on whether or not the term "atheist Jew" was an oxymoron. The basis was that some people regard Jewishness as a racial description (in which case you can be a Christian Jew, Hindu Jew, or whatever) and others as a religious description (in which case you can only be a "Jewish Jew"). I am aware that I am oversimplifying this - my point is merely to get to this question: do any people formerly part of an Amish community refer to themselves as Amish after leaving it? Or would they be ex-Amish instead?
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Being Amish isn't a racial description. You're not born Amish, when you become an adult you make a conscious decision to live the plain life. If you decide not to go plain, you're not Amish. For those who choose to go plain and later leave, I'm not sure if "former Amish" or "ex-Amish" is the preferred term.
 
I have a question: if you're religious and on the road, then why the heck can't you bring a Bible with you? Putting them into hotel rooms makes a lot of presumptions about the inhabitants and becomes more shilling for a religion than it does honestly helping people.

But seriously, why the heck wouldn't someone who needs the Bible not bring it along? Why not sell Bibles and other articles of faith in a vending machine to prevent this intrusion (as well as disease, in case of hospitals)? All this reasoning for keeping a silly book in a drawer just seems to be justification for religious crap.
 
Zbu said:
I have a question: if you're religious and on the road, then why the heck can't you bring a Bible with you? Putting them into hotel rooms makes a lot of presumptions about the inhabitants and becomes more shilling for a religion than it does honestly helping people.

But seriously, why the heck wouldn't someone who needs the Bible not bring it along? Why not sell Bibles and other articles of faith in a vending machine to prevent this intrusion (as well as disease, in case of hospitals)? All this reasoning for keeping a silly book in a drawer just seems to be justification for religious crap.
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The hotel owners are permitting their hotels to be used for christian proselytization.

The silly books aren't there for convenience of christians, they're there to plague the non-christians.

Have fun with them.
 
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