Criminal Charges Against Trump / Trump Indicted / Hush Money Part III

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Thanks. But the business records are not felonies...unless they were used in committing a felony . I want to know what , in the end, was the actual felony.


The highlighted isn't true:
§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.


Note that "includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof" speaks of "another crime", which does not necessarily have to be a felony crime. The defense tried to get the judge to tell the jury that other crime had to be a felony, but the judge would have none of it, asking Blanche whether § 175.10 actually says "felony" instead of crime. Blanche admitted that is not what the law said, and Judge Merchan said he wasn't going to misrepresent the law when giving instructions to the jury.

Maybe we have to wait until a juror goes on record to tell us.
The prosecution never did.


That is not at all true. According to the prosecution, that other crime consisted of a conspiracy to unlawfully influence the 2016 presidential election. One of the several things that were unlawful about that conspiracy was the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels made by Michael Cohen (which amounted to a donation to Trump's campaign that exceeded legal limitations on the size of such donations, regardless of whether you choose to think of it as Cohen making the donation or the Trump Org making the donation via its share of the reimbursement). The decision to disguise reimbursement of that illegal campaign donation as legal expenses was also unlawful (for several reasons).

This was all documented within the prosecution's summation and argued about during several sidebars preceding the judge's charge to the jury.

(I apologize for providing links to such lengthy transcripts, most of which seem not to be electronically searchable. I had the luxury of following these proceedings in near real time by watching and listening to extensive television coverage, but I'm not going to read hundreds of pages of transcript to find specific passages on behalf of people who make spurious allegations despite their inattention to what actually happened in the trial.)

Sherkeu said:
Yep..in order to do "what"? That is the felony part of falsifying records. Why?
The prosecution said they did not have to give a reason. And thry didnt give any official reason.The jury could decide which reason made it a felony. The jury members did not need to agree what made it a felony, just that it was a felony for whatever reason.


Sherkeu is confused. The felony part of falsifying records is the fact that it was done with intent to commit or to conceal another crime. That other crime does not have to be a felony.

acbytesla said:
Actually, it didn't have to hide another felony. But it did have to hide other illegal activities. In this case one of three things. Violating state election laws, Federal election laws or tax fraud.


The prosecution believed all of those examples were present in this case, but argued that a guilty verdict would be appropriate even if only one were present. The defense wanted to have the judge tell the jury that every juror would have to agree on which of those illegal activities were present, but the judge ruled (correctly) that the law doesn't insist upon that, just as the law doesn't insist that all jurors must agree on one particular motive for a murder before returning a verdict of guilty.
 
The highlighted isn't true:



Note that "includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof" speaks of "another crime", which does not necessarily have to be a felony crime. The defense tried to get the judge to tell the jury that other crime had to be a felony, but the judge would have none of it, asking Blanche whether § 175.10 actually says "felony" instead of crime. Blanche admitted that is not what the law said, and Judge Merchan said he wasn't going to misrepresent the law when giving instructions to the jury.




That is not at all true. According to the prosecution, that other crime consisted of a conspiracy to unlawfully influence the 2016 presidential election. One of the several things that were unlawful about that conspiracy was the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels made by Michael Cohen (which amounted to a donation to Trump's campaign that exceeded legal limitations on the size of such donations, regardless of whether you choose to think of it as Cohen making the donation or the Trump Org making the donation via its share of the reimbursement). The decision to disguise reimbursement of that illegal campaign donation as legal expenses was also unlawful (for several reasons).

This was all documented within the prosecution's summation and argued about during several sidebars preceding the judge's charge to the jury.

(I apologize for providing links to such lengthy transcripts, most of which seem not to be electronically searchable. I had the luxury of following these proceedings in near real time by watching and listening to extensive television coverage, but I'm not going to read hundreds of pages of transcript to find specific passages on behalf of people who make spurious allegations despite their inattention to what actually happened in the trial.)




Sherkeu is confused. The felony part of falsifying records is the fact that it was done with intent to commit or to conceal another crime. That other crime does not have to be a felony.




The prosecution believed all of those examples were present in this case, but argued that a guilty verdict would be appropriate even if only one were present. The defense wanted to have the judge tell the jury that every juror would have to agree on which of those illegal activities were present, but the judge ruled (correctly) that the law doesn't insist upon that, just as the law doesn't insist that all jurors must agree on one particular motive for a murder before returning a verdict of guilty.

The only choice was a felony verdict (or nothing). Any lesser crime had past the statute of limitations.
 
but you know you guys got to stop worrying about what his supporters are going to start caring because there's always going to be a bunch that won't. for a variety of reasons, he's always going to have a base. but, his base is becoming smaller and more fanatical. this kind of stuff is going to peel some people away.

if there's any real consequences for him to any of this, it's that it's disastrous for his campaign. he was looking tired and ragged and everyone thinks he was pooping his pants, his wife didn't even show up. his family barely did. wouldn't even take the stand. he came out of it looking worse than a porn star and a crooked lawyer. he walked in looking defeated and then he was, guilty on all counts with barely any deliberations. 12 americans, not a crazy hidden trumper among them. first a rapist, now a felon. and the republican party is stuck with it.

well good riddance to them all
 
Sherkeu confirms their confusion:

The only choice was a felony verdict (or nothing). Any lesser crime had past the statute of limitations.


It is true that, due to the statute of limitations, Trump was not charged with and could not have been convicted of falsifying business records in the second degree. Falsifying business records in the second degree is a misdemeanor. Trump was charged with 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. Falsifying business records in the first degree is a felony.

The difference between misdemeanor falsification and felony falsification is the purpose of the falsification. If the business records were falsified to commit or to conceal another crime, the falsification becomes a felony.

As I and several others have explained, citing and even quoting the relevant New York statute (§ 175.10):

Sherkeu is confused. The felony part of falsifying records is the fact that it was done with intent to commit or to conceal another crime. That other crime does not have to be a felony.
 
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Tucker Carlson, on X:

Import the Third World, become the Third World. That's what we just saw. This won't stop Trump. He'll win the election if he's not killed first.
But it does mark the end of the fairest justice system in the world.
Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.
It would seem the finest of French cuisine has absolutely nothing on the culinary masterwork that is Trump’s sphincter.
 
but you know you guys got to stop worrying about what his supporters are going to start caring because there's always going to be a bunch that won't. for a variety of reasons, he's always going to have a base. but, his base is becoming smaller and more fanatical. this kind of stuff is going to peel some people away. if there's any real consequences for him to any of this, it's that it's disastrous for his campaign. he was looking tired and ragged and everyone thinks he was pooping his pants, his wife didn't even show up. his family barely did. wouldn't even take the stand. he came out of it looking worse than a porn star and a crooked lawyer. he walked in looking defeated and then he was, guilty on all counts with barely any deliberations. 12 americans, not a crazy hidden trumper among them. first a rapist, now a felon. and the republican party is stuck with it.

well good riddance to them all

Exactly!!!

Trump has been convicted of 34 felonies
Trump has been found liable for rape.
Trump has been found liable for defamation TWICE!
Trump has been found to have committed 6 counts of tax and insurance fraud.
The Trump Organization was found guilty of 15 counts of criminal tax fraud. His CFO went to Rikers for it.
The Trump Foundation was found to have committed charities fraud and self dealing.
Trump University was found to have defrauded its students and paid $25 million dollars.
And Trump is still waiting trial for 58 other criminal charges.

It should be noted that Trump could have easily gone to jail for some of his fraudulent business activities if he had been investigated and charged in a timely fashion. Trump managed in his life to avoid criminal prosecution because of various statutes of limitations.
 
stanfr said:
Tucker Carlson, on X:

Import the Third World, become the Third World. That's what we just saw. This won't stop Trump. He'll win the election if he's not killed first.
But it does mark the end of the fairest justice system in the world.
Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.


So that's how the Trumpists are gonna spin this, as an incitement for civil war.
I agree with the Montana fishing shop guy when it comes to Tucker...
Tucker is right. This won't stop Donny. Not because he is innocent, but because he is too narcissistic and mind-bendingly stupid to realise he is just a normal-sized, pea-brain schlubb who is now almost universally despised, and any further attempts at grifting the "genius Billionaire" thing will just make things worse.
 
Tucker Carlson, on X:

Import the Third World, become the Third World. That's what we just saw. This won't stop Trump. He'll win the election if he's not killed first.But it does mark the end of the fairest justice system in the world.
Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.


So that's how the Trumpists are gonna spin this, as an incitement for civil war.
I agree with the Montana fishing shop guy when it comes to Tucker...

Carlson is still pushing the "assassination" lie, I see. That man is so desperate.
 
Tucker Carlson, on X:

Import the Third World, become the Third World. That's what we just saw. This won't stop Trump. He'll win the election if he's not killed first.
But it does mark the end of the fairest justice system in the world.
Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.


So that's how the Trumpists are gonna spin this, as an incitement for civil war.
I agree with the Montana fishing shop guy when it comes to Tucker...

Racist.
 
Will people ever get tired of the preposterous "if it could happen to a President, it could happen to You!" Non-sequitor?
 
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