The DeSantis gambit

[Orphia Nay]

And now it is.

https://apnews.com/article/disney-florida-ron-desantis-settlement-91040178ad4708939e621dd57bc5e494

Disney has conceded that their last-minute development agreement with RCID is invalid. So many people here claimed that Disney had outmaneuvered DeSantis with that last minute deal, but it was obviously a move of desperation and not some genius 4D chess masterstroke. I was right, everyone who predicted Disney would come out on top was wrong, including many of the so-called experts quoted here.

They’ve reached a settlement agreement, so neither side ‘won’, according to your article.

 

[Ziggurat]

They’ve reached a settlement agreement, so neither side ‘won’, according to your article.

Yeah, no. Disney gave up. That’s the settlement. CFTOD got everything they wanted, namely the last minute covenant and development agreement with RCID are gone. The only thing Disney gets is they don’t have to keep paying their lawyers for a lawsuit they were going to lose.

You can win in a settlement agreement, they aren’t all a split down the middle.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Yes, that was fun.

I don't think the fun is over.

And now it is.

https://apnews.com/article/disney-florida-ron-desantis-settlement-91040178ad4708939e621dd57bc5e494

Disney has conceded that their last-minute development agreement with RCID is invalid. So many people here claimed that Disney had outmaneuvered DeSantis with that last minute deal, but it was obviously a move of desperation and not some genius 4D chess masterstroke. I was right, everyone who predicted Disney would come out on top was wrong, including many of the so-called experts quoted here.

As many readers of this thread might already have guessed, Ziggurat is omitting some facts.

The fun might not be entirely over.

Yeah, no. Disney gave up. That’s the settlement. CFTOD got everything they wanted, namely the last minute covenant and development agreement with RCID are gone. The only thing Disney gets is they don’t have to keep paying their lawyers for a lawsuit they were going to lose.

You can win in a settlement agreement, they aren’t all a split down the middle.

To quote a more informed source:

As part of a settlement announced on Wednesday, Disney agreed to pause an appeal of that ruling — but not drop it entirely — while negotiating a new comprehensive growth plan with tax district officials....

....As part of the settlement, the district agreed not to “prohibit or impede” long-term environmental permits granted to Disney....

The settlement followed a conspicuous leadership shake-up at the district. Two people whom Disney viewed as particularly antagonistic — the founding chairman, Martin Garcia, and Glen Gilzean, a senior administrator — resigned this month....

As for why Mr Gilzean left CFTOD, it might have had something to do with this story from last August:

Perhaps you read Tuesday’s front-page story about how the head of Florida’s ethics commission appears to be in violation of … wait for it … Florida’s ethics laws....

This might be the most Florida story ever....

In this case, the Sentinel reported that the chairman of the state’s ethics commission, Glenton “Glen” Gilzean, is also getting paid $400,000 a year to run the state new (anti-) Disney governing board.

The problem with that is that Florida statutes say no public employees are allowed to serve as ethics commissioners....

But no, that was not the most Florida story ever, because Ron DeSantis is the governor of Florida.

DeSantis thought it would be a great idea to rescue Gilzean from his illegally held position at CFTOD by appointing the ethically challenged Gilzean as — wait for it! — supervisor of elections for Orlando and the surrounding county.

 

[Ziggurat]

As many readers of this thread might already have guessed, Ziggurat is omitting some facts.

You were wrong, I was right. You were so damn sure you knew more than me, but you didn’t. Even now, you’re trying to talk down to me as if you weren’t wrong and I wasn’t right. Your arrogance in the face of error is quite stunning. Even now you can’t admit it. That’s a fact you’re omitting.

The fun might not be entirely over.

The lawsuits are over. Disney says they might continue the federal appeal, but they won’t, and even if they did, they would just lose the appeal (which is why they won’t). They had no case, it was obvious they had no case, which is why it got dismissed even before trial. Maintaining that option to appeal might save some face, but it’s not an actual win, and it won’t matter.

But you are right that it might not all be over. Disney and former RCIDs members are still subject to criminal investigation for their corrupt dealings. CFTOD isn’t in a position to sweep those issues away.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

As many readers of this thread might already have guessed, Ziggurat is omitting some facts.

You were wrong, I was right. You were so damn sure you knew more than me, but you didn’t. Even now, you’re trying to talk down to me as if you weren’t wrong and I wasn’t right. Your arrogance in the face of error is quite stunning. Even now you can’t admit it. That’s a fact you’re omitting.

As much as Ziggurat might like for this thread to be about my thin-skinned narcissism, the thread actually concerns a more interesting topic: whether Ron DeSantis should be regarded as a serious contender for the Presidency of the United States, or as another shameless buffoon.

The DeSantis-Disney contretemps became part of that discussion, so it is appropriate to mention actual facts concerning the recent settlement.

The news of the settlement came right around the time that the five-member board decided to install Stephanie Kopelousos, a new DeSantis-recommended administrator who is widely viewed by Tallahassee insiders as favorable to the entertainment giant.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

As much as Ziggurat might like for this thread to be about my thin-skinned narcissism, the thread actually concerns a more interesting topic: whether Ron DeSantis should be regarded as a serious contender for the Presidency of the United States, or as another shameless buffoon.

The DeSantis-Disney contretemps became part of that discussion, so it is appropriate to mention actual facts concerning the recent settlement.

Sounds less and less like Disney losing and more like Brave Sir RonDa bravely running away yet again.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Sounds less and less like Disney losing and more like Brave Sir RonDa bravely running away yet again.

Well, it's common for such settlements to be presented to the public as a win for both sides. In this case, there's some truth to that, because the conflict between Disney and Florida wasn't good for either. DeSantis is declaring victory, of course.

If you read all four pages of the settlement agreement, you'll see it is signed by CFTOD Vice Chairman Charbel Barakat and Disney President Jeffrey N Vahle. If you're wondering why it wasn't signed by the CFTOD chairman, that's because CFTOD chairman Martin Garcia resigned recently, and I guess they haven't yet installed a new chair. Disney is under new leadership as well.

With the departures of Martin Garcia and ethically challenged ethics commissioner Glenton Gilzean, and the arrivals of administrator Stephanie Kopelousos at CFTOD and Vahle at Disney, it looks to me as though cooler heads have prevailed. By moving Gilzean to an unrelated sinecure and recommending Kopelousos as his replacement, DeSantis contributed to this substantial resolution of the conflict.

Disney has agreed "to seek...permission from the court to defer briefing in Disney's pending federal appeal...pending negotiations among other matters of a new development agreement between Disney and the District." If the federal court consents, that will give Disney some recourse if those negotiations go badly.

 

[Norman Alexander]

To me, as an outsider, it sounds more like Ron was told by Disney: "This is what you need to do - remove your horrible person A and your useless person B, and replace them with these actually competent persons C and D who we can work with, and in return we won't sue your ass into oblivion, loser. Instead, this all goes away and you can look good. Ok? Got it? Good. Sign here."

 

[Ziggurat]

To me, as an outsider, it sounds more like Ron was told by Disney: "This is what you need to do - remove your horrible person A and your useless person B, and replace them with these actually competent persons C and D who we can work with, and in return we won't sue your ass into oblivion, loser. Instead, this all goes away and you can look good. Ok? Got it? Good. Sign here."

That’s because you don’t understand the legal issues in this case. CFTOD got what it wanted. It was never about the specific people involved, trying to make it about that now is Disney trying to save face, not DeSantis. Disney lost control of the special district, and will never get it back. And that is how it should be.

ETA: and in case it isn’t clear, Disney was losing on every legal front. And you can’t sue into oblivion a government that can tax you to cover that lawsuit. That’s right: CFTOD’s legal expenses are primarily paid for by Disney itself.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

There's good news and bad news on the "Don't say gay" front.

Multiple lawsuits were filed against the act with the support of advocacy groups representing parents and families of LGBT+ children; numerous other advocacy groups have also issued statements opposing the act.[e][22] After a federal district court dismissed one suit, the Eleventh Circuit (considering an appeal) indicated it would likely rule against the Parental Rights in Education Act. The groups settled with the state in March 2024 to purposely narrow the law to restrict only the direct teaching of gender identity and sexual orientation in classrooms, while once again allowing discussions of LGTBQ+ concepts between teachers and students and allowing libraries to carry LGBTQ-related books.

Federal bills
Republican Representative Mike Johnson of Louisiana introduced the Stop the Sexualization of Children Act, a version of the bill in the US House of Representatives titled the which has gained 32 GOP cosponsors. The bill is argued by its critics to not only replicate but go further than the Parental Rights in Education Act, as it would prohibit LGBTQ material in all federal facilities, prohibit drag performances in all federally-funded institutions, and similar to the Texas Heartbeat Act, include a private right of action clause enabling parents and guardians to sue institutions which hold such performances.[106]
State bills

At least 20 states have had their legislatures introduce derivative bills of the Parental Rights in Education Act, including Arizona,[107] Georgia,[108] Iowa,[109][110] Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan,[111] Missouri,[112] Ohio,[113] Oklahoma,[114] Tennessee, and South Carolina.[115][116] In April 2022, Alabama became the second state to pass a similar bill, with governor Kay Ivey signing House Bill 322, legislation which additionally requires all students to use either male or female bathrooms in Alabama public schools based on their biological sex. It is noted that some states have had similar provisions to Florida's law since the 1980s, though they have never gained the name of "Don't Say Gay" bills by critics until recently.[117][118]

Source

So mostly bad news. Despite majorities disapproving such bills, seems DeSantis came out on top after all. For now. It may be a Pyrrhic victory -- as abortion is looking at the moment -- but time will tell.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

To me, as an outsider, it sounds more like Ron was told by Disney: "This is what you need to do - remove your horrible person A and your useless person B, and replace them with these actually competent persons C and D who we can work with, and in return we won't sue your ass into oblivion, loser. Instead, this all goes away and you can look good. Ok? Got it? Good. Sign here."

Disney's position wasn't strong enough to dictate terms, but DeSantis had his own reasons for wanting to settle this. The Florida governorship is term-limited, so DeSantis can't run for re-election in 2026. He could run again in 2030, but his political ambitions probably include running for Senator and/or President before 2030.

Just about everyone regards DeSantis's recent presidential campaign as a disaster, and a great many people, including quite a few Republicans, regard his anti-Disney shenanigans as performative foolishness. DeSantis did not want the Disney brouhaha to continue throughout the rest of his term as governor. He would prefer to move on to different arenas of performative foolishness.

In particular, Disney was appealing the dismissal of its federal lawsuit. There was a chance Disney might win that appeal, and the suit be sent back for trial in the same lower court that had dismissed the case. Assuming Disney would lose in that court, Disney could then appeal that decision. All of this would take time. Even if it all were to play out and Disney were to lose at both the lower court and its appeal, that legal process might drag on throughout the rest of DeSantis's term and then be settled out of court by the next governor, who would probably take credit for re-establishing a normal relationship between the state and one of the state's most important businesses. Plus there's the chance Disney might actually win at trial.

DeSantis is not so much a fool as to want to take those risks. He's going to want voters to focus on issues where he can look better than he has with Disney.

Which is why both DeSantis and Disney wanted to put this behind them.

 

[Ziggurat]

Disney's position wasn't strong enough to dictate terms

That's an understatement. Disney's state case was doomed from the start, their last-minute deal with RCID was invalid for both procedural and substantive reasons. CFTOD is getting everything it asked for it its lawsuit, and Disney is abandoning both its countersuit and its open records suit. That is a complete win for CFTOD.

Disney had already abandoned most of their federal case, dropping all but the free speech claim. And the free speech claim was so weak it was dismissed even before trial. So CFTOD is getting everything it wants there too.

Did Disney get anything substantive from this deal? Yes, actually they did, but you didn't even mention it. They got to claim control over development credits, which are necessary (but not sufficient) for future property development. But they weren't suing over control of those development credits. They could have negotiated for control of those with CFTOD without ever having filed suit at all.

What does Disney have to show for all the money they spent on lawyers? Nothing.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

That's an understatement. Disney's state case was doomed from the start, their last-minute deal with RCID was invalid for both procedural and substantive reasons. CFTOD is getting everything it asked for it its lawsuit, and Disney is abandoning both its countersuit and its open records suit. That is a complete win for CFTOD.

Disney had already abandoned most of their federal case, dropping all but the free speech claim. And the free speech claim was so weak it was dismissed even before trial. So CFTOD is getting everything it wants there too.

Did Disney get anything substantive from this deal? Yes, actually they did, but you didn't even mention it. They got to claim control over development credits, which are necessary (but not sufficient) for future property development. But they weren't suing over control of those development credits. They could have negotiated for control of those with CFTOD without ever having filed suit at all.

What does Disney have to show for all the money they spent on lawyers? Nothing.

I don't know, it can claim it will stand up for the LGBTQ community. It's an intangible branding gimmick strategy, but most branding is largely intangible and... gimmicky. I don't know how much cash Disney lost here, but it's typical for a large corp to spend millions on branding, so maybe on some level they got what they want.

 

[Stacyhs]

This MAGA woman informs us how slaves benefitted from slavery and how people 'living off government handouts isn't that much further away from slavery". Her justifications regarding slavery are just so typical of racists. Watch all the video as the woman continues throughout to reveal her 'thoughts' although I'm not sure really thinking is one of her strong points.

 

[tyr_13]

You were wrong, I was right. You were so damn sure you knew more than me, but you didn’t. Even now, you’re trying to talk down to me as if you weren’t wrong and I wasn’t right. Your arrogance in the face of error is quite stunning. Even now you can’t admit it. That’s a fact you’re omitting.



The lawsuits are over. Disney says they might continue the federal appeal, but they won’t, and even if they did, they would just lose the appeal (which is why they won’t). They had no case, it was obvious they had no case, which is why it got dismissed even before trial. Maintaining that option to appeal might save some face, but it’s not an actual win, and it won’t matter.

But you are right that it might not all be over. Disney and former RCIDs members are still subject to criminal investigation for their corrupt dealings. CFTOD isn’t in a position to sweep those issues away.

You are trivially, savagely, wrong about this being a win at all for DeSantis. This isn't even a remotely close call.

What did DeSantis want? He wanted a to target Disney and hurt it for very mild criticism of his hateful (and recently gutted) 'Don't say gay' law. First he tried to make the board go away and, being a typical conservative, didn't realize that would put the Florida taxpayer on the hook for millions. When that was pointed out to him, he then using a bill of attainder that a Trump judge claimed didn't count as one because 'Disney' wasn't literally written in the bill (It's unlikely an appeals court wouldn't overturn such a finding which ignores normal civil procedure), to replace the board with people he picked to specifically do things to hurt Disney (such as mess with their water).

That move, that putting people on the board to do things to hurt Disney, is totally undone by this settlement. Not only is the board now run by a staunch Disney ally (who made a carve out for Disney with DeSantis' 'no woke workers' law), not only is everything the DeSantis 'fluoride makes kids gay and law-violating ethics head' board undone (the settlement sets all choices back to before the new board), but the incoming board is explicitly required to work to keep the permits and other work in benefit of Disney!

What did DeSantis get? He got nothing. Not even the lawsuit is ended; Disney can restart the very likely successful appeal to the bill of attainder. DeSantis didn't get to punish Disney for their first amendment protected activities. Disney still has constructive control of the board and none of the attacks the old board tried stick.

The fascist attack on a company for criticizing government action failed. Take the L and move on.

 

[johnny karate]

That's an understatement. Disney's state case was doomed from the start, their last-minute deal with RCID was invalid for both procedural and substantive reasons. CFTOD is getting everything it asked for it its lawsuit, and Disney is abandoning both its countersuit and its open records suit. That is a complete win for CFTOD.

Disney had already abandoned most of their federal case, dropping all but the free speech claim. And the free speech claim was so weak it was dismissed even before trial. So CFTOD is getting everything it wants there too.

Did Disney get anything substantive from this deal? Yes, actually they did, but you didn't even mention it. They got to claim control over development credits, which are necessary (but not sufficient) for future property development. But they weren't suing over control of those development credits. They could have negotiated for control of those with CFTOD without ever having filed suit at all.

What does Disney have to show for all the money they spent on lawyers? Nothing.

Somehow, your framing of this settlement rings a bit false. I’m starting to suspect that you perhaps have a bias against Disney.

 

[dirtywick]

just seems like he did it to bolster his presidential run, and now that it's over there's not a lot of point it carrying on with the show

 

[Ziggurat]

You are trivially, savagely, wrong about this being a win at all for DeSantis. This isn't even a remotely close call.

What did DeSantis want? He wanted a to target Disney and hurt it for very mild criticism of his hateful (and recently gutted) 'Don't say gay' law. First he tried to make the board go away and, being a typical conservative, didn't realize that would put the Florida taxpayer on the hook for millions.

No. That's what a lot of the press reported, but the press doesn't know what it was talking about. It was never, ever a possibility that the RCID bonds could have possibly become the responsibility to pay by ANYONE other than property holders within the RCID boundaries, which meant primarily Disney.

When that was pointed out to him, he then using a bill of attainder that a Trump judge claimed didn't count as one because 'Disney' wasn't literally written in the bill (It's unlikely an appeals court wouldn't overturn such a finding which ignores normal civil procedure), to replace the board with people he picked to specifically do things to hurt Disney (such as mess with their water).

You have no clue what you're talking about. He didn't replace the board of RCID. He abolished RCID completely, and replaced it with CFTOD. RCID no longer exists. And you can complain all you want to about motives, but RCID was a government entity, not a private entity. The government of Florida can do whatever it want to any government entity it creates. It isn't just that the law doesn't name Disney, it's that the law doesn't actually do ANYTHING to Disney. It did something to RCID. And RCID is legally completely independent of Disney. RCID is a government entity, not the property of Disney. Disney had no property rights to RCID. Their only claim to property rights was the developer agreement, which was invalid for both substantive and procedural reasons, but with the settlement even Disney agrees that it's dead.

That move, that putting people on the board to do things to hurt Disney, is totally undone by this settlement.

The switch of CFTOD board members isn't part of this settlement, it happened separately. These are really basic facts, how can you be getting it so wrong?

And who gets to appoint the new board members? Ron DeSantis, not Disney. That hasn't changed. Stephanie Kopelousos is being reported as someone more pro-Disney than Gilzean, since she's worked with Disney before, but she's also a former campaign advisor for DeSantis. She's still HIS pick, not Disney's.

And RCID is gone for good, which means nothing has really been undone. You really don't understand the difference between RCID and CFTOD if you think the switch of a few board members represents undoing anything. And again, that switch isn't even part of this settlement.

What did DeSantis get? He got nothing.

First off, this settlement isn't actually between DeSantis and Disney, it's between Disney and CFTOD. And CFTOD got what it wanted: the last-minute developer agreement between Disney and RCID is permanently gone. Which it would have been anyways, but now they don't have to go through a trial to get it. If you don't know why getting rid of that developer agreement was important, then you don't understand why Disney pushed it through at the last minute, and why CFTOD wanted it nullified. As I said before, Disney did get something important out of this deal, but you never even mentioned it, because you don't understand anything.

Not even the lawsuit is ended

The state lawsuits are ended permanently.

Disney can restart the very likely successful appeal to the bill of attainder.

No, they cannot. First off, the federal lawsuit claim wasn't based on the law being a bill of attainder, but on being a first amendment violation. Second, even if they restart the appeal, it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. There's a reason it was dismissed even before trial: Disney has no case.

DeSantis didn't get to punish Disney for their first amendment protected activities.

RCID is gone, CFTOD is here to stay. I'm not sure if that's punishment given that RCID should have been abolished decades ago, but Disney lost a hell of a lot when they lost RCID. They weren't entitled to it in the first place, which is why they can't win their federal suit, but they still lost it.

Disney still has constructive control of the board

No, they do not have control of the board.

and none of the attacks the old board tried stick.

What attacks do you imagine there were? CFTOD got rid of the last-minute developer agreement. They got rid of the illegal park passes to employees (now the employees get a stipend which they can use to buy passes if they want, but aren't required to). The contract with Reedy Creek Energy Services is going to expire in 2028 instead of 2032. Do you understand anything about the situation? Anything at all?

The fascist attack on a company for criticizing government action failed. Take the L and move on.

Yeah, you really don't understand anything about RCID and CFTOD. This isn't an L for me, you just beclowned yourself.

 

[Ziggurat]

Somehow, your framing of this settlement rings a bit false. I’m starting to suspect that you perhaps have a bias against Disney.

Read it for yourself. Then tell me what I got wrong.

 

[johnny karate]

Read it for yourself. Then tell me what I got wrong.

Scanned the document and didn’t see the part where is says “Disney gets nothing”. Could you highlight it for me?