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Cont: Roe v Wade overturned - this is some BS part II

The Great Zaganza said:
I'm a bit confused - isn't it usually oocytes and sperm that a frozen?
I thought embryos are only frozen when during invitro fertilization too many take and only 2-3 will get implanted, saving the others for a second attempt.
How many frozen embryos are there, actually?
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Our younger son was IVF. They were able to fertilize 12 eggs, 2 of which were viable.

The process is grueling and takes a physical, emotional, and financial toll. My wife was a wreck from when the process started until about the second trimester. Up until then, we could only think about everything that could go wrong. Fortunately, the pregnancy went well and we have a healthy little chaos agent who teams up with his brother to eat us out of house and home.

But we saw a ruling or law like this coming when the Dobbs decision was handed down. And now thousands of women will go through what my wife did, on top of any other complications they may personally have AND the state of Alabama calling them murderers.

For what? What is the benefit of this? Who pays for the storage of the embryos? Were doctors consulted?

This really hits hard and we're both pissed.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I'm a bit confused - isn't it usually oocytes and sperm that a frozen?
I thought embryos are only frozen when during invitro fertilization too many take and only 2-3 will get implanted, saving the others for a second attempt.
How many frozen embryos are there, actually?
Click to expand...
It may not matter how many if there are any. The page I read for a quick refresher suggests that embryos are first created in vitro, though unfertilized eggs may also be saved and frozen. If more embryos are successfully fertilized than needed, some may be frozen. Those remaining are allowed to progress, with the hope that they will reach the blastocyst stage, at which point they are considered fit for implantation. Those that never reach that stage are discarded. So if you take the rule literally, they cannot be discarded or abandoned, and even though they may never mature to the blastocyst stage and have no hope at all of ever becoming anything but what they are, they are legally "extra-uterine children" requiring a lifetime of care.

I may have some details wrong or fuzzy, but I think there are a lot of worms in that can.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I mean besides the standard pack of embryos every Librul has in case of emergency satanic ritual.
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i know as a matter of fact satanic rituals aren't real because if they were i would have already summoned satan on multiple occasions. same as bigfoot, if he was real we'd be best friends, but we're not, ergo.
 
The Atheist said:
Isn't that self-evident if life begins at conception?
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Viruses, bacteria, fungi are 'alive',too. To equate this zygote to a 'child' is ludicrous.



When a mass of cells becomes a child is not based on science but on personal and/or religious beliefs. Countries that base their laws on religion are theocracies such as Afghanistan under the Taliban, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan, not democracies/democratic republics. But that is the direction the Christian Nationalists and extreme right-wing Fundamentalists want to take this country.

Tom Parker, the AL SC chief justice and people like him scare the crap out of me. They espouse the most un-American, unconstitutional view of government I can imagine, yet Parker wields great power. "Parker was first elected to the Alabama Supreme Court in 2004 and was reelected in 2010 and in 2016. He was elected Chief Justice in 2018."He's another reason I will NEVER live in a GOP controlled state.

Alabama justice who ruled embryos are people says American law should be rooted in the Bible
Tom Parker, chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, expressed his support for the Seven Mountains Mandate, a once-fringe philosophy that calls on evangelical Christians to reshape American law and society based on their beliefs.
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During an online broadcast hosted by Tennessee evangelist Johnny Enlow on Friday, Parker suggested America was founded explicitly as a Christian nation and discussed his embrace of the Seven Mountains Mandate — the belief that conservative Christians are meant to rule over seven key areas of American life, including media, business, education and government.

“God created government, and the fact that we have let it go into the possession of others, it’s heartbreaking,” Parker said in the interview, first reported this week by Media Matters for America, a liberal nonprofit media watchdog. “That’s why he is calling and equipping people to step back into these mountains right now.”

Hours before the interview was published, Parker issued a concurring opinion in a case in which he and his fellow justices ruled that frozen embryos have the same rights as living children under Alabama’s Wrongful Death of a Minor Act.

Parker wrote that Alabama had adopted a “theologically based view of the sanctity of life” and that “life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God.” To support his legal opinion, Parker repeatedly cited the book of Genesis, including a passage asserting that all people are created in God’s image.

“Even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God,” Parker wrote, “and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”
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...

Even if one were to accept the nightmare premise that American law should be rooted in the Bible, that religious interpretation is not one that's actually supported by the Bible without incredible cherry picking.
 
Donal said:
Our younger son was IVF. They were able to fertilize 12 eggs, 2 of which were viable.

The process is grueling and takes a physical, emotional, and financial toll. My wife was a wreck from when the process started until about the second trimester. Up until then, we could only think about everything that could go wrong. Fortunately, the pregnancy went well and we have a healthy little chaos agent who teams up with his brother to eat us out of house and home.

But we saw a ruling or law like this coming when the Dobbs decision was handed down. And now thousands of women will go through what my wife did, on top of any other complications they may personally have AND the state of Alabama calling them murderers.

For what? What is the benefit of this? Who pays for the storage of the embryos? Were doctors consulted?

This really hits hard and we're both pissed.
Click to expand...

Sadly it is now going to hit harder, since the Alabama court has now greased the slippery slope it very much looks like many of the fears of those that support limited abortions are coming true. Other examples which were hand waved away will now have to be considered. A woman who has a miscarriage now really could face investigation for a type of homicide, have they followed all the medical recommendations, if not then they could be considered as having negligently endangered the life of another human being. It seemed ludicrous before this decision but now woman may have to enter confinement again to protect themselves from potential prosecution if the pregnancy does not result in a live birth.
 
Darat said:
Alabama, their supreme court has determined personhood starts at conception so a frozen embryo is a child in that state.
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I think it's important to remember that the legal definition is based on a fundamental and intractable biological ignorance (and of course religious misogyny) to begin with, so if you go on the usual biological rules, the unborn person starts out as a zygote, then a blastocyte, and only then an embryo, but for legal purposes, if the moment of conception is taken as the beginning point (as it apparently is), then the life of what the court decision calls "extra-uterine children" begins at the zygote stage.

It can't happen here...nobody's that stupid...who'd have thought...no, not that...it'll never fly...nobody could have seen it coming...how did we end up here?
 
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