General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Leumas]

Jewish refugees fleeing oppression in Muslim countries isn't settler colonialism.

(1) Do you think a homeless person has the right to come to your house kill you and throw out your family and take over your house?

(2) When a refugee throws out the original inhabitants of the land he is a refugee in and ethnically cleanses them and takes over their farms and confines them to concentrations camps... he is a Settler Colonialist.

And if he uses the lies of Zionism to justify his crimes... then he is a Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialist.

(3)....

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

In 1945, roughly 1 million Jews lived peacefully in the various Arab states of the Middle East, many of them in communities that had existed for thousands of years. After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, however, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

 

[Leumas]

It was considerably more than 'fleeing oppression' ---- Jews living in those Muslim nations were kicked out (ethnically cleansed) in the early 1950's, their properties confiscated, their bank accounts closed (and funds therein inaccessible).

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

.... After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, however, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

What happened, in plain terms, was an exchange of populations.

I am not surprised that you are playing chess with the lives of humans...

But the ARAB Jews went to Israel and were given lands taken from the Palestinians and are now living in freedom.

The Palestinians were made to live in refugee camps and Concentration camps and their lands are still being stolen piecemeal every single day.

Unlike the Arab Jewish PAWNS the European Zionists played with along with the VASSAL servants of the British and French Imperialists powers... who were at least given DIGNITY and LIFE in Israel.

The same Zionists and Imperialists ethnically cleansed the Palestinian Pawns and herded them off to live in misery and humiliation for GENERATIONS under the Zionists and the vassals of the British in concentrations camps and their lands went on being stolen and their houses demolished to make space for the Settler Colonialists as a result of the Zionist Jihad.

700K Palestinians shifted their location (in most cases, not moving outside the confines of what had been considered Historical Palestine for hundreds of years prior).
They spoke the same language, ate the same foods, practiced the same religion, and were, for all intents and purposes, just the same as the people that they arrived among as refugees.
(In Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Westbank & gaza)

So if a homeless guy who speaks your language and the rest of the claptrap... comes over to your house and kills you and throws out your family into the shed in the backyard.

Do you call that "shifting your location"?

Amazing language to describe Ethnic Cleansing to make space for the Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialists....

 

[Leumas]

Leumas brings forward Ilan Pappé as a source. (we gotta READ his book, as Leumas shills for it)

Pappé is described as "an Israeli academic who has made his name by hating Israel and everything it stands for."

Narrating the litany of facts about the crimes against humanity wreaked upon the Palestinians by the European Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialists is not hating anything... it is called TELLING FACTS...

Telling the facts about the injustice and crimes committed against indigenous peoples by European Settler Colonialists is OBJECTIVE FACTS.... no matter how much emotive invectives the deniers of the facts hurl at those who tell the FACTS.

 

[Leumas]

...has made his name by hating Israel and everything it stands for."

What about this book... would you read what Miko Peled has to say?


Or at least watch what he has to say...

I will bet anything that you will not even click on it or listen to a minute of it.

 

[Leumas]

Leumas brings forward Ilan Pappé as a source.

What about Gabor Maté... does a Nazi Holocaust camp survivor telling you the FACTS about the Zionist Concentration camps count? Or is he also a hater of Israel?

 

[Leumas]

... hating Israel and everything it stands for."

What about Noam Chomsky... does he too hate Israel?

 

[lionking]

What about Noam Chomsky... does he too hate Israel?

Yes, yes he does. But Chomsky hates so many nations that it’s easier to list those he doesn’t. He’s an unreconstructed old left hippie who was never worth reading at his best, and is abominable in his dotage.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Yes, yes he does. But Chomsky hates so many nations that it’s easier to list those he doesn’t. He’s an unreconstructed old left hippie who was never worth reading at his best, and is abominable in his dotage.

I've never understood this thing about Noam Chomsky. People cite him as if he was some infallible, last-word authority on everything, when he isn't: he's an effing idiot, who's wrong about almost everything.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

You forgot to mention Ethiopians, Yemenis, Iraqis, Moroccans, Egyptians, Syrians, Turks, Iranians, etc.

Which is not far off the mix of the supposedly homogenous, though not Arabic, Palestinians who supposedly arrived, with Islam, before the Jews, who apparently never lived in Judea and didn't have ancestors.
Or something.
There's so much huffing and blowing here that it's hard to tell what's actually being claimed. Whatever it is, it's definitely autochthonous, and quite possible irrefragable.

 

[Leumas]

Because colonialism is the core of the "Underdog, ergo the good guy" narrative for the Palestinians.

He's just slamming the "White Guilt" button over and over.

....
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill

I find your quote of Winston Churchill quite apt for this thread.

And the above is the quintessential White Supremacy and Settler Colonialist Ethos that is the cause of all the Zionist... Christian and Jewish... JIHADIST racism and ethnic cleansing and apartheid we see now in 2023 and over the past 75 years of sordid inhumanity.

Churchill rejected the Arab wish to stop Jewish migration to Palestine:

"I do not admit that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger, though he may have lain there for a very long time I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race or at any rate a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place. I do not admit it. I do not think the Red Indians had any right to say, 'American continent belongs to us and we are not going to have any of these European settlers coming in here'. They had not the right, nor had they the power."​

 

[Leumas]

I've never understood this thing about Noam Chomsky.

Yes... of course... thanks for admitting it

.... he's an effing idiot, who's wrong about almost everything.

......He’s an unreconstructed old left hippie who was never worth reading at his best, and is abominable in his dotage.

Yup... of course YOU would think that... thanks for admitting it.


And after the above... the below as corrected for bad vocabulary usage and grammar... is... well... surprisingly a very accurate description....

...
There's so much huffing and blowing here that it's hard to tell what's actually being claimed. Whatever it is, it's definitely autochthonous, and quite possible irrefragable.

 

[Nessie]

I think Israel is seeking somewhat more than just that limited result, this time around.
We've been down that path of "industrial quiet" after previous efforts to stop Hamas (2021 being the last one). Israel arranged a ceasefire each time that Hamas was on the ropes, due to 'mounting international pressures' and the result is what we experienced on 10-7.

Look at the Latuff cartoon that Leumas provided above in post # -- it was created in 2007.
Think about that for a second. In over a decade+1/2 the Israelis are back at square 1 with regards to our neighbors to the south.

Nessie, I've offered everyone here in several of my posts a perfectly reasonable and dynamic resolution to the intractable conflict -- namely, a NewState in part of Historical Palestine. This mini-Nation-State in statu nascendi provides an answer to all the Palestinian demands.
1. Their own lands, to grow and flourish alongside Israel, yet not have ANY Jews living within their borders. (Judenrein)
2. Access to sea and rail and air. (See: El-Arish)
3. Wide and generous Arab support, including by Saudi Arabia.
4. Giving refugees wordwide a place to call home, without threatening the demographics of the Jewish State. (we will consider famility reunifications to come live in Israel on a case-by-case basis).
5. No need to spend any of their State budget on military. (see: Guns or Butter)
6. Admittance to the UN as a member Nation. (they're now just an Observer Nation)
7. Agreement on the disposition of Haram al-Sharif, with the Kingdom of Jordan taking the mantle of "protector of Islamic Holy Grounds" and placing the Royal Jordanian Guards there, for show.
(Israel will naturally maintain overall security control of the entire city of Jerusalem, including this 37-acre public park area). NewState residents will be granted over-passage rights by Israel, into Hebron and from there, a short taxi or bus ride over to al-Quds.
8. Renewed access to funding, tech, and trade (with Hamas in charge, and designated as a terrorist group, the current restrictions on all the above are very draconian and prevent development of Gaza).
9. UNRWA will cease to exist, as it's no longer needed.
10. Palestinians will know peace.

That's your post-war plan. What is Israel's? They don't appear to have one and they do appear to be making the mistake of not having an end game, road to a future peace. Instead, they seem obsessed with destroying Hamas and not worrying about the future.

 

[Ziggurat]

That's your post-war plan. What is Israel's? They don't appear to have one and they do appear to be making the mistake of not having an end game, road to a future peace. Instead, they seem obsessed with destroying Hamas and not worrying about the future.

You seem to think they have an obligation to tell you their plan.

They do not.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Yes, yes he does. But Chomsky hates so many nations that it’s easier to list those he doesn’t. He’s an unreconstructed old left hippie who was never worth reading at his best, and is abominable in his dotage.

Chomsky is a textbook example of the "I think Liberalism begins and ends at hating whatever side of any conflict isn't the underdog" thing which infests so much of modern liberalism, this current discussion being a prime example.

He's exactly the kind of snot nosed little punk who if you sent him back to D-Day would stand there shouting "Listen I'm totally not on the Nazi's side, but I am going to spend all my time and energy pointing out that the Allied Forces aren't perfect either."

 

[JoeMorgue]

That's your post-war plan. What is Israel's?

Try to continue to exist while surrounded by Muslim mono-states who want it wiped off the map is my guess.

 

[Leumas]

You seem to think they have an obligation to tell you their plan.

They do not.

Certainly they are not obligated... but they have been obliging very readily with the FINAL SOLUTION for not having to repeatedly keep "Mowing The Lawn"... and getting rid of the infestation of inhuman animals and savages.

 

[webfusion]

I ran across this (long) piece written about "genocide"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/moral-failure-genocide-140450995.html

It seemed apropos for this thread.

 

[Leumas]

Try to continue to exist while surrounded by Muslim mono-states who want it wiped off the map is my guess.

Yup... that is what the South African Afrikaans Settler Colonialists used to say too.

Israel and South Africa have one thing above all else in common: they are both situated in a predominantly hostile world inhabited by dark peoples.

A homeless guy comes to the house of a family and kills the father and mother and kicks the children out to become themselves homeless...

Then inhabits the house...

Then spends the next few decades with the help of his brother the policeman to criminalize and demonize the "homeless" children trying to take their house back.

Then starts crying and sobbing that he is surrounded by hostile criminals hell bent on annihilating him and denying his rights to his house.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm trying to find a way to describe a level of argumentative dishonesty and hopelessness greater then "Prove to me that the Muslim world is hostile toward Jews" and I'm coming up empty.

 

[Leumas]

...war plan. What is Israel's? ...

Netanyahu has been repeatedly and indefatigably telling the whole world precisely what that is for over 11 years... I give you one guess...

And here is a hint...

[imgw=300]https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2012/09/APTOPIX-UN-General-As_Horo-640x400.jpg[/imgw]​