General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[lobosrul5]

British Settler Colonialists bringing Indian people to help in their settler colonialist projects in Africa... is the same as European Zionists Settler Colonialists bringing Africans to help them in their Settler Colonialist Project in Palestine...


That is what the " actual **** " is the point in response to you citing African migrants brought into Israel as your attempt to obfuscate from Israel being a European Zionist Settler Colonialist project.

Are you saying Israel forced non-European Jews to be their servants like the British did in Africa with Indians?!

 

[Leumas]

Nobody on the goddamn planet lives where their ancestors used to live.

Except... according to Zionist Jihadists (and Christian Zionists) ... the Zionists.

Despite said "ancestors" never having existed and are nothing but myths in fairy tales... just like Nazis made up fairy tales about their ancestors being from Atlantis.

And even those fairy tales have been twisted and warped to create a MODERN MYTH which is belied... ironically... by the very old myths that they thump as a warrant for their Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihad.

And this same Modern Day LIE called Zionism... is used to Ethnically Cleanse and Genocide autochthonous Palestinians and instead bring Indian and Ukrainian and Russian and American and British and French and German and Polish ZEALOT Zionists to take the lands and farms and demolished houses wrenched out of the Palestinians.

Go figure...

 

[lobosrul5]

Thanks for proving that Israel is a Settler Colonialist OCCUPATION of Palestine...

Imagine if Muslims did the same... and brought Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims and Persian Muslims and Russian Muslims to displace and ethnically cleanse say Ukraine while confining the Ukrainians to Concentration Camps.

You have just proven the Zionist Jihadists as nothing but Settler Colonialist OCCUPIERS of Palestine... well done.

Imagine if a bunch of Ukranians were living in western Europe because a thousand years ago Russia kicked them out of Ukraine. Then a whole ******* bunch of them were murdered in concentration camps in Europe. Then Russia lost a war. Then the UN decided, maybe we can let them go back to like 5% of Ukraine that we'll set aside for them. Then a whole bunch of Ukranian diaspora from around the world were like gee that sounds neat, lets go back to this 5% of Ukraine where we can have our own country. Then a bunch of Russia's who chose to stay in this 5% of Ukraine kept on launching terrorist attacks against Ukraine.

There is your actual analogy.

 

[webfusion]

I'm so sick of "colonist."

Nobody on the goddamn planet lives where their ancestors used to live.

From my understanding of the development that Israel has undergone since the late1800's the Jews who moved here did so because they sought to fulfil a dream of Judaism that dates back several millenia.
Additionally, the first immigrant arrivals of the modern era were from Tsarist Russia. Their lives within the 'Pale of Settlements' basically sucked. Truly and badly.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/pale-restricted-area

By the way, I saw a factoid the other day that noted the most popular name given to newborn males in Israel.

Yep, it was "Mohammed" (*cite needed)

 

[webfusion]

Except... according to Zionist Jihadists (and Christian Zionists) ... the Zionists.

Despite said "ancestors" never having existed and are nothing but myths in fairy tales... just like Nazis made up fairy tales about their ancestors being from Atlantis.

And even those fairy tales have been twisted and warped to create a MODERN MYTH which is belied... ironically... by the very old myths that they thump as a warrant for their Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihad.

And this same Modern Day LIE called Zionism... is used to Ethnically Cleanse and Genocide autochthonous Palestinians and instead bring Indian and Ukrainian and Russian and American and British and French and German and Polish ZEALOT Zionists to take the lands and farms and demolished houses wrenched out of the Palestinians.

Go figure...

You forgot to mention Ethiopians, Yemenis, Iraqis, Moroccans, Egyptians, Syrians, Turks, Iranians, etc.

 

[lobosrul5]

You forgot to mention Ethiopians, Yemenis, Iraqis, Moroccans, Egyptians, Syrians, Turks, Iranians, etc.

Its my understanding that for most of them, it wasn't Zionist zealotism or whatever, that made them come to Israel. Rather escaping persecution. Something Leumas will never come around to.

 

[Leumas]

Are you saying Israel forced non-European Jews to be their servants like the British did in Africa with Indians?!

Duped... scammed... hoaxed...

 

[webfusion]

Its my understanding that for most of them, it wasn't Zionist zealotism or whatever, that made them come to Israel. Rather escaping persecution. Something Leumas will never come around to.

What do you think "zionism" is? The fulfillment of Jewish liturgical imperative.
The motivation to pursue that aim in the modern era came from Herzl (et.al.) witnessing (as a journalist) the Dreyfuss Trail in France. He (rightfully) recognized that Europe was ripe for tragedy vis-a-vis the Jews therein. His suggestion? Get out, and go to rejuvenate Zion.

Absolutist claims of divine right to territory appear impossible to reconcile.

 

[Leumas]

I never realized that there was anyone who didn't realize Israel is a nation with a large immigrant population from elsewhere on earth. I always figured that was a well-known paradigm regarding the composition of Israel's residents.

Yes... that is what a Settler Colonialist Colony is... unfortunately for its autochthonous natives who have to become ethnically cleansed immigrants into refugee and concentration camps in order to make place for those immigrant Settler Colonialists.

 

[Leumas]

Imagine if a bunch of Ukranians were living in western Europe because a thousand years ago Russia kicked them out of Ukraine. Then a whole ******* bunch of them were murdered in concentration camps in Europe. Then Russia lost a war. Then the UN decided, maybe we can let them go back to like 5% of Ukraine that we'll set aside for them. Then a whole bunch of Ukranian diaspora from around the world were like gee that sounds neat, lets go back to this 5% of Ukraine where we can have our own country. Then a bunch of Russia's who chose to stay in this 5% of Ukraine kept on launching terrorist attacks against Ukraine.

There is your actual analogy.

Yes... so Ukrainians and other Europeans being persecuted by other Europeans go to other continents to Ethnically cleanse the natives and take their land thus becoming themselves the oppressors and murderers just as they were oppressed and murdered...

Thanks for admitting that Israel is a European Settler Colonialist occupation of the autochthonous population of Palestine.

By the way... why doesn't a Zionist from Manhattan NY give up his American Citizenship and give it to a Palestinian whose farm and land he has snatched??

Why doesn't a Ukrainian persecuted by Germans go to Ukraine where his ancestors came from originally instead of to Israel where distorted and warped FAIRY TALES say his MYTHICAL never extant ancestors from 4000 years never were?

 

[Leumas]

Its my understanding that for most of them, it wasn't Zionist zealotism or whatever, that made them come to Israel. Rather escaping persecution. Something Leumas will never come around to.

So a U.S.A. citizen leaving the USA and going to Israel to occupy land stolen from the Palestinians is escaping persecution?

A recent study by Oxford University, published by Haaretz, estimates that there are roughly 60,000 American Jews living in the West Bank settlements. The New York Times published an important article this month on "Israeli Terrorists, Born in the U.S.A," that sheds light on the involvement of American citizens in settler terrorism,

And with what moral and SANE rationale do you think that a person escaping persecution has the right to persecute people and steal their lands?

Do you think a homeless person has the right to come and kill you and throw out your family and take over your house?

Under what decency and humanitarian sanity does a German escaping persecution by other Germans have the right to go ethnically cleanse and persecute people to create a Settler Colonialist land for himself?

Now do you see why it is Zealotry based upon Myths twisted out of Fairy Tales about a mythical peripatetic SUMERIAN pimp.

 

[lobosrul5]

So a U.S.A. citizen leaving the USA and going to Israel to occupy land stolen from the Palestinians is escaping persecution?

I was speaking of Jews going to Israel from countries such as Iraq, Yemen, Turkey, and Ethiopia.

But you knew that.

Now do you see why it is Zealotry based upon Myths twisted out of Fairy Tales about a mythical peripatetic SUMERIAN pimp.

No I don't.

 

[Leumas]

...
Absolutist claims of divine right to territory appear impossible to reconcile.

I have always wondered if this is more of a case of a DEMONIC rights to territory... especially given the strife and mayhem and calamities and murder and destruction and hate and injustice that this "divine" has caused.

If one believes in "divine" then one must also believe in DEMONIC... and as the alleged son of this DEMON said... you know them by the fruits they produce... and this YHWH has certainly produced some poisonous fruits... for all concerned... most of all... for the pathetic abused and battered wife of his who is suffering from a chronic and acute case of Stockholm Syndrome.

That is of course if one is already insane enough to subscribe to the MYTHS.

And if one is... then might as well condone the Wizards of Hogwarts ethnically cleansing and genociding the Muggles of London and cheer and rally for Voldemort.

 

[Beerina]

Thanks for proving that Israel is a Settler Colonialist OCCUPATION of Palestine...

Imagine if Muslims did the same... and brought Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims and Persian Muslims and Russian Muslims to displace and ethnically cleanse say Ukraine while confining the Ukrainians to Concentration Camps.

You have just proven the Zionist Jihadists as nothing but Settler Colonialist OCCUPIERS of Palestine... well done.

When, decades ago, Jordan buldozed the Palestianian village a colleague used to live in, and nearby ones, were they driving out interloper settlers? Presumably with your approval?

No Arab country wants Palestinians. They use you for their ends. Egypt won't take them, even temporarily, saying it would destabilize Egypt. Do you rub your chin and think, "That's reasonable."?

You're all so full of ****. Dictators of 1.4 billion people want you to hate on Jews with a clear conscience. What a brilliant invention! They should get the Dr. Doom award for ingenius evil.

I guess converting western feminists from haters of burkas as female oppression to supporters of it, as an expression of love to not tempt their menfolk, was just a warmup for manipulation of westen intellectuals, who base the certainty of their rightousness on the moral approval of others.

It takes years, but the weak mind has no thoughts other than how do I look?

 

[Leumas]

I was speaking of Jews going to Israel from countries such as Iraq, Yemen, Turkey, and Ethiopia.

Those Jewish ARABS... as some would benightedly call them... have been living in those regions for MILLENNIA long before there were Arabs even.

And those in those newly created (by the British and French ) countries as you named them have been living in multi-religious harmony for millennia... without persecution... much as were the Palestinian Jewish "arabs" (as some benightedly would call them).

They only had problems AFTER the European Zionist Settler Colonialists went to colonize Palestine... and in fact European Zionists begrudgingly accepted them because a lot of the European Jews preferred to go to the Americas instead of Palestine... if they had a choice.

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

In 1945, roughly 1 million Jews lived peacefully in the various Arab states of the Middle East, many of them in communities that had existed for thousands of years. After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, however, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

And in fact the Mizrahim faced and still face today a lot of discriminations and racism at the hands of the European Ashkenazim Zionists.

Israeli society in general – and Ashkenazi Jews in particular – have been described as holding discriminatory attitudes towards Jews of Middle Eastern and North African descent, known as Mizrahi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Oriental Jews.

...In September 1997, Israeli Labor Party leader Ehud Barak made a high-profile apology to Oriental Jews in Netivot stating:

"... Much suffering was inflicted on the immigrants and that suffering was etched in their hearts...In acknowledgement of this suffering and pain, and out of identification with the sufferers and their descendants, I hereby ask forgiveness in my own name and in the name of the historical Labor movement.[161]​

Barak's address also said that during the 1950s, Mizrahi immigrants were "made to feel that their own traditions were inferior to those of the dominant Ashkenazi [European-origin] Israelis [Alex Weingrod's paraphrase]". Several prominent Labor party figures, including Teddy Kollek and Shimon Peres, distanced themselves from the apology while agreeing that mistakes were made during the immigration period.

...

Segregation, especially in the area of housing, limited integration possibilities over the years...

...disparities persist....

...and one source suggests that "ethnic prejudice against Mizrahi Jews is a relatively general phenomenon, not limited to the schooling process".

There was a case in 2010, when a Haredi school system, where Sephardi and Mizrahi students were sometimes excluded or segregated. In 2010, the Israeli supreme court sent a strong message against discrimination in a case involving the Slonim Hassidic sect of the Ashkenazi, ruling that segregation between Ashkenazi and Sephardi students in a school is illegal. They argue that they seek "to maintain an equal level of religiosity, not from racism"....

 

[Leumas]

When, decades ago, Jordan buldozed the Palestianian village a colleague used to live in, and nearby ones, were they driving out interloper settlers? Presumably with your approval?

Whataboutism failure.

No Arab country wants Palestinians.

Yes... go tell that to the imbeciles who keep calling them Arabs in order to facilitate their ethnic cleansing.

They use you for their ends.

ASSUMPTION failure!!!

Egypt won't take them, even temporarily, saying it would destabilize Egypt.

Go tell that to the imbeciles who chant the mantra of "Palestinian Arabs" or "Israeli Arabs" in order to justify their Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid.

Do you rub your chin and think, "That's reasonable."?

Yes... I do... and yes I say it is... because just as unreasonable it is for European Zionist Jihadists to want to ethnically cleanse them out of their lands... so it would be for them to go to other people's lands just like the European Settler Colonialists came to theirs.

You're all so full of ****.

And I agree that

It takes years, but the weak mind has no thoughts other than...

Fallacious Whataboutism and presumptuously clueless assumptions and not ever DARING to read History or Facts.

 

[webfusion]

Leumas brings forward Ilan Pappé as a source. (we gotta READ his book, as Leumas shills for it)

Pappé is described as "an Israeli academic who has made his name by hating Israel and everything it stands for."

 

[JoeMorgue]

Pointing out every cherry picked criticism of Israel applies to their neighboring Muslim countries by a factor of 10 is not "whataboutism." Nor is it "a strawman" or whatever "I had fallacy used against me once but have no idea what it actually means so I think it's just a magic word to throw out in an argument" you think it is.

Repeat in bold with grander formatting some more, maybe that will help.

 

[Roboramma]

Thanks for proving that Israel is a Settler Colonialist OCCUPATION of Palestine...

Imagine if Muslims did the same... and brought Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims and Persian Muslims and Russian Muslims to displace and ethnically cleanse say Ukraine while confining the Ukrainians to Concentration Camps.

You have just proven the Zionist Jihadists as nothing but Settler Colonialist OCCUPIERS of Palestine... well done.

Jewish refugees fleeing oppression in Muslim countries isn't settler colonialism.

 

[webfusion]

Jewish refugees fleeing oppression in Muslim countries isn't settler colonialism.

It was considerably more than 'fleeing oppression' ---- Jews living in those Muslim nations were kicked out (ethnically cleansed) in the early 1950's, their properties confiscated, their bank accounts closed (and funds therein inaccessible).

What happened, in plain terms, was an exchange of populations.
700K Palestinians shifted their location (in most cases, not moving outside the confines of what had been considered Historical Palestine for hundreds of years prior).
They spoke the same language, ate the same foods, practiced the same religion, and were, for all intents and purposes, just the same as the people that they arrived among as refugees.
(In Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Westbank & gaza)

700K Jews shifted their location during this same period of time.
They had few similar traits as those already in Israel. They ate different foods, they spoke different languages (Arabic, not Hebrew, Yiddish, English or Russian), they dressed in unique garb, they had limited knowledge of modernity (Automobiles? What's an automobile?) and were really very much dissimilar to the existing population of Israel after Ww2.
In fact, UNRWA was involved with their absorption into Israeli society. (Israel announced that UNRWA support was no longer needed in 1952.)