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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

The $3.6 billion bitcoin hack that probably never happened.
Was it stolen? Did it exist at all?

 
There's a story circulating that near the end of FTX, they were "manipulating" bitcoin to keep BTC below $20 by selling it. Makes no sense as they badly needed to get as much as possible. They might have been forced to sell it to pay off customers that were exiting the exchange. That's not manipulation. It's stupidity when their fraudulent accounting caught up with them.
 
it's back at $37k right now, if you got talked into buying some like a dumbass like i did a few years back during that boom, it's probably pretty close to where it was when you bought it. i sat on it and i'm happy to get my money back.
 
dirtywick said:
it's back at $37k right now, if you got talked into buying some like a dumbass like i did a few years back during that boom, it's probably pretty close to where it was when you bought it. i sat on it and i'm happy to get my money back.
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Still a ways to go before it reaches the $69K that it was 2 years ago.

I don't blame you for cashing out while you can avoid a loss. Playing the long game can be quite nerve wracking.
 
psionl0 said:
I don't blame you for cashing out while you can avoid a loss. Playing the long game can be quite nerve wracking.
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Playing any game can be nerve wracking with crypto.

I keep my money in the bank. That way there's no surprises and it's always there when I need it.

But the main reason I don't touch crypto is that it's immoral. If I lost money on it I would feel like an idiot. But if I made money on it I would feel worse. It would not be worth all the guilt and shame.
 
marting said:
Binance's CZ resigns as CEO, pleads guilty and agrees to pay $4.3B. Binance will continue operating but will be AML monitored for 3 years.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/binance-and-ceo-plead-guilty-federal-charges-4b-resolution
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That's the same CZ whose decision not to rescue FTX was the straw that broke that particular camel's back.

I was wondering at the time how long it would take before he was brought down too. Is there anybody in cryptocurrency who is not as bent as a nine pound note staying on the right side of the law?
 
jeremyp said:
That's the same CZ whose decision not to rescue FTX was the straw that broke that particular camel's back.

I was wondering at the time how long it would take before he was brought down too. Is there anybody in cryptocurrency who is not as bent as a nine pound note staying on the right side of the law?
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It was a combination of CZ's actions that initiated an FTX run on the bank. CZ had also tweeted they were dumping all their FTT tokens and that initiated people pulling out of FTX. SBF ran FTX/Alameda as a combined pot of money even while telling the World customer deposits were segregated when they weren't. I think CZ was fully aware of what SBF was doing and saw an opportunity to take out FTX. FTX was waging a full scale campaign presenting itself as the most honest exchange and no doubt irritating CZ to high heaven.

Quite possible FTX would be alive and kicking without the CZ inspired run. They had a lot of illiquid investments that might have paid well in the future, including a big one in AI.
 
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marting said:
It was a combination of CZ's actions that initiated an FTX run on the bank. CZ had also tweeted they were dumping all their FTT tokens and that initiated people pulling out of FTX. SBF ran FTX/Alameda as a combined pot of money even while telling the World customer deposits were segregated when they weren't. I think CZ was fully aware of what SBF was doing and saw an opportunity to take out FTX. FTX was waging a full scale campaign presenting itself as the most honest exchange and no doubt irritating CZ to high heaven.

Quite possible FTX would be alive and kicking without the CZ inspired run. They had a lot of illiquid investments that might have paid well in the future, including a big one in AI.
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I think FTX would have gone down anyway. If it hadn’t been CZ it would have been something else.

My point was that CZ turns out to be almost as crooked as SBF.
 
jeremyp said:
I think FTX would have gone down anyway. If it hadn’t been CZ it would have been something else.
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Possibly. OTOH, people have been selling their bankruptcy claims at increasing prices. Initially, they sold for 10 cents on the dollar. As of 12/1/23 they are going for 60 cents on the dollar. And that's immediate money rather than waiting years for the BK process.

Another oddity. FTX debts are now, unlike initially, going for higher valuations than others like Celsius, 3Arrows, etc.

The CZ tweet bankrun exposed FTX's use of customer funds. Likely they would remain undiscovered otherwise. How many crypto exchanges are doing the same thing today? Gotta be tempting. Crypto valuations are magnified by wash trading and there's a lot more liquidity available if you use customer deposits.

https://claims-market.com/
 
psionl0 said:
So you are a Puritan who abhors gambling.
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Not a Puritan, but yes I do abhor the idea of getting 'something for nothing'. Crypto is much worse than that though, it's immoral on so many levels and causes actual harm on a massive scale.

I am not against gambling per se. It can be a fun experience. A few months ago I attended a 'Home and Garden' show and spied a Ford Mustang Mach-E. Turns out it was the prize in a fundraiser for the local rescue helicopter. NZ$50 for a ticket. I happened to have $50 cash on me so I told them I would buy a ticket if they let me sit in the car. I didn't expect to win even though at that time I was only ticket number 58. And of course I didn't win, but...

Last week I got an email inviting me to attend the draw at the hanger where the helicopter is based, which happens to be only 2 km from where I live! They cleverly held it on a Friday at 11am, so only about a dozen people turned up. With ~5,000 entries the chances of any of us winning was minuscule, and of course none of us won. But...

When the name of the winner was announced, one of the ladies exclaimed that it was her friend! She called her friend up and put the phone on speaker so we could all hear, which was quite funny because at first she thought it was a prank. Then she realized it was real and we heard "Oh my God! I hope there's nobody religious there because I don't know what else to say." - and we all laughed.

So even though none of us won we still participated in the joy of winning. I got to see the rescue helicopter up close, and inside the hangar too which was awesome. I got to sit in a $125,000 car that I could never afford to buy, without having to tell a salesman lies. And we all donated to a good cause (this helicopter was flying 24 hrs a day for weeks during Cyclone Gabrielle, so they really needed the money!). The prize of an electric car was also rather appropriate considering global warming caused the cyclone.

Was all that worth 50 bucks? Hell yeah!

picture.php


To be honest I didn't even want to win that car, because then I would have to get rid of my Nissan Leaf (which I love). I left the event feeling pumped but also slightly relieved. Winning would have been a lot more stressful, and I would feel guilty because I won and they didn't. 'Luckily' luck was well on my side there.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Crypto is much worse than that though, it's immoral on so many levels and causes actual harm on a massive scale.
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Selective bias. Speculation and fraud occurs on a much wider global scale with "regular" currencies and is potentially far more damaging. Remember 2008?
 
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Roger Ramjets said:
Not a Puritan, but yes I do abhor the idea of getting 'something for nothing'. Crypto is much worse than that though, it's immoral on so many levels and causes actual harm on a massive scale.

I am not against gambling per se. It can be a fun experience. A few months ago I attended a 'Home and Garden' show and spied a Ford Mustang Mach-E. Turns out it was the prize in a fundraiser for the local rescue helicopter. NZ$50 for a ticket. I happened to have $50 cash on me so I told them I would buy a ticket if they let me sit in the car. I didn't expect to win even though at that time I was only ticket number 58. And of course I didn't win, but...

Last week I got an email inviting me to attend the draw at the hanger where the helicopter is based, which happens to be only 2 km from where I live! They cleverly held it on a Friday at 11am, so only about a dozen people turned up. With ~5,000 entries the chances of any of us winning was minuscule, and of course none of us won. But...

When the name of the winner was announced, one of the ladies exclaimed that it was her friend! She called her friend up and put the phone on speaker so we could all hear, which was quite funny because at first she thought it was a prank. Then she realized it was real and we heard "Oh my God! I hope there's nobody religious there because I don't know what else to say." - and we all laughed.

So even though none of us won we still participated in the joy of winning. I got to see the rescue helicopter up close, and inside the hangar too which was awesome. I got to sit in a $125,000 car that I could never afford to buy, without having to tell a salesman lies. And we all donated to a good cause (this helicopter was flying 24 hrs a day for weeks during Cyclone Gabrielle, so they really needed the money!). The prize of an electric car was also rather appropriate considering global warming caused the cyclone.

Was all that worth 50 bucks? Hell yeah!

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1476&pictureid=13879[/qimg]

To be honest I didn't even want to win that car, because then I would have to get rid of my Nissan Leaf (which I love). I left the event feeling pumped but also slightly relieved. Winning would have been a lot more stressful, and I would feel guilty because I won and they didn't. 'Luckily' luck was well on my side there.
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She didn't turn out to be the organisers wife did she?
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Not a Puritan, but yes I do abhor the idea of getting 'something for nothing'.
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I came across this post from May 1, 2017.
Roger Ramjets said:
psionl0 said:
Anybody game to short bitcoin yet? :D
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I would if I had any. Bitcoin is in a huge bubble that is about to burst.
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11819729#post11819729

It appears that you weren't so averse to getting 'something for nothing' when you thought the bitcoin price would crash.
 
Bitcoin has been rising. Now at $47k.

Following an interesting series of dips followed by increasing peaks.

There are bitcoin "mining" companies with significant VC funding. Mining is the one area where bitcoin is not zero sum. Strong vested interest in seeing higher prices. Especially before the next halving.

Noticed a lot of ads on Youtube for "crypto." The theme is "Money makes the World go round," intoned in a chaotic set of images then: "Crypto makes the World go forward" in a nice calm voice.

Funny thing is that I opened up a Youtube video of Molly White, a well known crypto skeptic and Wikipedian correcting someone about copywrite, attribution, and Wikipedia. The first ad was the Crypto makes the World go Forward one. The ads have been ubiquitous.
 
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