Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[GlennB]

This guy here captured the moment a car fell through the floor bursting into a huge fireball. Stop being in denial.

A couple of floor sections collapsed, yes, and a burning car fell through.

I posted a screen cap of it, showing the floor sections in a \ / formation, but your only reaction was to demand whether it was actually Luton.

Want to see it again?

p.s. X/Twitter is a rotten source for cites. I tried viewing one and X launched into a sign-up routine.

 

[Vixen]

A couple of floor sections collapsed, yes, and a burning car fell through.

I posted a screen cap of it, showing the floor sections in a \ / formation, but your only reaction was to demand whether it was actually Luton.

Want to see it again?

p.s. X/Twitter is a rotten source for cites. I tried viewing one and X launched into a sign-up routine.

This one is a good source because all of the news agencies contacted the guy and asked to use his video. See all of the responses to it.

Are you talking about this picture here:

moment of explsn 1 by Username Vixen, on Flickr

 

[lobosrul5]

It is not mutually exclusive for him to be under suspicion of criminal damage and at the same time the fire 'was caused by a faulty vehicle'. This is what you have been told officially.

Imagine if the fault was Jaguar Land Rover's all along and they tried to pin it on this poor guy whose only 'crime' was to jump out of THEIR defective name-protected vehicle.

So... it wasn't a do-it-yourself weekend project in his garage then?

 

[GlennB]

This one is a good source because all of the news agencies contacted the guy and asked to use his video. See all of the responses to it.

Are you talking about this picture here:

That's a totally crap version, as the light from the flames overwhelms the camera. Try this:

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48359&stc=1&d=1699573601 [/imgw]

Another is available, a moment later. They were posted some days ago but it seems you missed them.

 

[Vixen]

That's a totally crap version, as the light from the flames overwhelms the camera. Try this:

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48359&stc=1&d=1699573601 [/imgw]

Another is available, a moment later. They were posted some days ago but it seems you missed them.

I did see them. What came first, the floor giving way or the burning vehicle undermining its structure?

If you are unable to see that guy's tweet (@robsonOReardon) then you can view it here about 4/5ths of the way down the page.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html

 

[Vixen]

So... it wasn't a do-it-yourself weekend project in his garage then?

It's not mutually exclusive.

 

[junkshop]

News update: LBC Radio have been chatting to members of the fire brigade union, who claim the building should have been able to withstand a fire for at least 15 minutes..

...Note the time: 23:15 BST - less than two hours after a major incident was declared. (Which was 21:38.)...

So the building was, as you have evidenced, able to withstand the fire for considerably longer than 15 minutes.

What point were you trying to make?


Oh, and lest we forget, the Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service confirmed that the fire started in a diesel vehicle four weeks ago - on the self-same day you started this ridiculous thread.

 

[GlennB]

I did see them. What came first, the floor giving way or the burning vehicle undermining its structure?

Meaningless pseudo-science. Maybe even worse than that. Just drivel.

Why did you write "the burning vehicle"? That's clearly the ground floor and vehicle #0 was a few floors above. Directly above was also a raging inferno with hundreds of cars ablaze.

 

[Foster Zygote]

This guy here captured the moment a car fell through the floor bursting into a huge fireball. Stop being in denial.


https://x.com/RobsonOReardon/status/1711868144438927380?s=20


"Robson O'Reardon��
@RobsonOReardon
Looks like the whole car park has just fallen down through the flames!

#LutonAirport"

Note the time: 23:15 BST - less than two hours after a major incident was declared. (Which was 21:38.)

Liverpool ECHO car park, King's Dock did not actually collapse like this, although floors sunk in the middle.

Horse. ****.

There's no way in Hell you can claim to be able to see an individual car falling through a hole it's melted through the floor in that video, shot from, by the looks of it, about ⅓ to ½ a kilometer away, and with the whole structure partially obscured by heavy smoke, because the whole thing is already engulfed in an out of control fire. The video looks just like a partial collapse of the structure caused by the weakening of steel components due to the high heat of hundreds of burning cars. That video in no way supports your profoundly ignorant assertion that a Li-ion battery melted through the concrete and steel floor of the garage.

 

[Dabop]

I would be VERY surprised if any country allows you to look up a name and address just from a number plate- with road ragers and stalkers all too common, this would be stupidity of the highest order (to put it mildly)
Just imagine the public outcry the first time a road rager looks up the plates of the car they are road raging on, then gets the persons name and address from the number plates, and proceeds to go to their house and assault them/smash their windows/set fire to their house (with a lithium battery perhaps lol)/whatever...



Here in Australia, all you can see as a member of the 'general public is the make and model, and if it is registered or not, only the owner can see all the other details....

 

[Foster Zygote]

I did see them. What came first, the floor giving way or the burning vehicle undermining its structure?

If you are unable to see that guy's tweet (@robsonOReardon) then you can view it here about 4/5ths of the way down the page.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html

Vixen, do you really expect anyone to believe - no, do you really believe that a Li-ion battery in a car could melt through the floor of the garage so fast that you wouldn't see any molten concrete or steel dripping through before it could all come through? Do you think that a Li-ion battery fire is so intense that it would "melt" through the concrete floor in an instant, and that a fire that staggeringly hot would still leave a recognizable car to fall through?

The Daily Mail is written by and for idiots, so their headline is predictably sensationalized. "Moment Range Rover explodes" (they didn't even get the make right) sounds way more dramatic than "Moment span collapses due to massive, prolonged fire involving numerous cars".

And why do you keep ignoring the NHTSA study showing that Li-ion vehicle fires are, at worst, no more destructive than in gasoline or diesel vehicles? Is NHTSA part of the sinister plot? Did they fake that study six years ago at the behest of a foreign auto manufacturer?

 

[GlennB]

^^^ (Dabop.. another post butted in )

Yeah, though Vixen tried to tell us that Finnish/Swedish/German laws were tighter than the UK, which actually doesn't reveal the stuff you refer to. And, yep, you give good reasons, such as road rage.

But she screwed it up somehow. Quoting old laws, or whatever.

 

[Foster Zygote]

This one is a good source because all of the news agencies contacted the guy and asked to use his video. See all of the responses to it.

Are you talking about this picture here:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53321685479_93eb9bfc71.jpg[/qimg]moment of explsn 1 by Username Vixen, on Flickr

That's not a "moment of explosion", it's a moment of collapse.

 

[phiwum]

This guy here captured the moment a car fell through the floor bursting into a huge fireball. Stop being in denial.


https://x.com/RobsonOReardon/status/1711868144438927380?s=20


"Robson O'Reardon��
@RobsonOReardon
Looks like the whole car park has just fallen down through the flames!

#LutonAirport"

Note the time: 23:15 BST - less than two hours after a major incident was declared. (Which was 21:38.)

Liverpool ECHO car park, King's Dock did not actually collapse like this, although floors sunk in the middle.

Ah, this twitter guy has 8,000 or so followers. So, we know that videos posted by someone with 8,000 followers are trustworthy, while those with only 232 followers are unreliable.

How many followers are enough to make video tweets reliable exactly? Or is the blue check mark the mark of integrity?

 

[phiwum]

Those ones obviously reached the fuel tank, hence the heavy hydrocarbons. The picture in the CCTV does not show this type of smoke as of that stage.

Did you notice the photo of the diesel truck on fire? It does not have particularly dark smoke. Nor is it a hybrid. Perhaps sometimes, depending on conditions and where the camera is, the smoke from a diesel car fire appears less black than other times.

 

[novaphile]

I don't know why but you have piqued my curiosity. Is it because of the increased number of start ups? (But then lots of newish cars have auto stop/start so perhaps not.)

Very close, Thermal picked it.

My vehicle is a plug-in hybrid, which means that the engine runs much less often than a vehicle which always runs the engine (normal ICE or Toyota style hybrids). This means that there is much more opportunity for the oil to drain off the bearings over time, leading to increased wear on start-up.

Frankly I'm amazed that Mitsubishi thought of that, but I see a lot of evidence that the car was designed by top-flight engineers.

 

[phiwum]

It is not mutually exclusive for him to be under suspicion of criminal damage and at the same time the fire 'was caused by a faulty vehicle'. This is what you have been told officially.

Imagine if the fault was Jaguar Land Rover's all along and they tried to pin it on this poor guy whose only 'crime' was to jump out of THEIR defective name-protected vehicle.

Right, it's not mutually exclusive.

But let's go with the working hypothesis that the prime minister (or maybe someone even higher up) wants to deflect blame from Land Rover. That's why, after all, you said the arrest was made, to distract attention away from the manufacturer.

Why would you publicly claim that the fire was a result of vehicle fault on the same day? Why not just remain silent on that point? If you're trying to avoid attention on the manufacturer, mentioning vehicle fault is a poor strategy.

Are these people just stupid? They announced the arrest like the higher-ups ordered, but they forgot to strike mention of vehicle fault from the press conference notes?

Your theory makes little sense.

 

[phiwum]

From this link here, you can see that the building was completely ablaze on all levels within one and a half hours. In the Liverpool ECHO car park fire, after two hours it had only spread to the next floor up.

https://x.com/RobsonOReardon/status/1711868144438927380?s=20

Different buildings, different situations, fires can behave differently. Were I a fire expert, perhaps I could see something suspicious in these different rates of spread or perhaps not. But like you, I don't know much about fires. Unlike you, I don't expect every parking garage fire started by an ICE car to spread at exactly the same rate.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Did you notice the photo of the diesel truck on fire? It does not have particularly dark smoke. Nor is it a hybrid. Perhaps sometimes, depending on conditions and where the camera is, the smoke from a diesel car fire appears less black than other times.

Seems to me it would seem darker against the sky, than in a concrete garage with artificial lightning.

 

[phiwum]

It's not mutually exclusive.

If he turned the car into a hybrid, then he's responsible for the fire if, as you claim, it began with the battery.

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