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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

Thermal said:
Oh, no doubt that happens. But I find it a little tough to swallow that white mass shooters are somehow not being noticed, or are being let off with a wink and nod? I've been checking the gun violence archive link that's been...occasionally...posted here, and it's been consistent. When the bodies hit the floor, there is a disproportionate racial representation in the shooters who get charged and convicted.
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That's a problem. Not the only one, I agree, but a problem. Mostly in how it is reported and perceived generally.

Black person defends himself against a robbery = black-on-black shooting, black-on-white shooting, BLM madness, black uprisings, whole families of them, why are they allowed guns?, fullest extent of the law, etc.

White person defends himself against a robbery = Castle doctrine, stand-your-ground, justified killings, 2A rights are sacred, from my cold dead hands, AR-15 is "just a gun", why arrest them?, etc.
 
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Trausti said:
There are very likely genetic reasons for group differences, as all traits and behaviors are at least partially hertiable. Otherwise, Darwin was wrong.
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Three false statements in your post:

1) There are very likely genetic reasons for group differences

It's trivially easy to come up with all sorts of groups differences that have no genetic reasons.

2) All traits and behaviors are at least partially heritiable

This is completely false. see Lamarck

3) Otherwise, Darwin was wrong

False, as Darwin asserted neither of the above.
 
sackett said:
But in the US, the constitution is sacred.* Not holy, i.e., never to be touched, but to be altered only with great circumspection. That's why a change in firearms regulation can only begin with a constitutional amendment.

BTW, "everyone else" includes, I think, only the more competently governed countries. Too many areas of the earth are dangerously ill-regulated.

* An observation by Rebecca West, and a new idea to me when I first read it. Initially, I took it for a piece of late-Bloomsbury snottiness, but soon realized that it's true, and a good thing.
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Not so sacred however to make sure that gun control legislation and regulations reflect what is clearly written in the constitution andbwhat was intended by its writers.
 
Bogative said:
The only competition is reality versus narrative. The narrative is that white boys with AR-15s commit most of the mass shootings. Reality is the opposite.




The above is narrative. It comes from Portland, Maine city councilwoman Victoria Pelletier who fancies herself a community activist. Completely delusional and a very common belief here in the states. She posted this shortly after the Maine shooting. Mass shootings that involve white boys with AR-15s are relatively uncommon compared to all other mass shootings.

I'll be following up with some reality shortly.
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Still mad that the rest of us are not counting the legions of black mass murderers that exist only inside your own head I see.
 
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Up until mass-shootings became a common phenomenon, gun violence was mostly a problem for poor urban minority communities.

But thanks to mass-shootings, gun violence now affects ALL communities, rich & small, black & white, rural and suburban.

:)
 
W.D.Clinger said:
Looking at US states ranked by homicide rate, it occurs to me that a state's culture and political history might be correlated with its homicide rate.

2021 Ranking / State / homicides per 100,000

50 Mississippi (23.7)
49 Louisiana (21.3)
48 Alabama (15.9)
46 South Carolina (13.4)
45 Missouri (12.4)
43 Tennessee (12.2)
41 Arkansas (11.7)
40 Georgia (11.4)
38 North Carolina (9.7)
37 Kentucky (9.6)
30 Texas (8.2)
28 Florida (7.4)
27 Virginia (7.2)

Why did I select those 13 states? Because they are the 13 states of the Confederacy.

Every state that tried to secede from the United States in 1861 falls among the worst half of US states ranked by homicide rate. The Confederate states account for 7 of the worst 10, and for 10 of the worst 15.
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Unfortunately if you further isolated those states by rural/suburban vs urban areas, you'll find that the rural and suburban areas of the Dixie states have homicide rates more inline with the rest of America. For the most part, high homicide rates is a strictly urban problem.
 
Hercules56 said:
W.D.Clinger said:
Looking at US states ranked by homicide rate, it occurs to me that a state's culture and political history might be correlated with its homicide rate.

2021 Ranking / State / homicides per 100,000

50 Mississippi (23.7)
49 Louisiana (21.3)
48 Alabama (15.9)
46 South Carolina (13.4)
45 Missouri (12.4)
43 Tennessee (12.2)
41 Arkansas (11.7)
40 Georgia (11.4)
38 North Carolina (9.7)
37 Kentucky (9.6)
30 Texas (8.2)
28 Florida (7.4)
27 Virginia (7.2)

Why did I select those 13 states? Because they are the 13 states of the Confederacy.

Every state that tried to secede from the United States in 1861 falls among the worst half of US states ranked by homicide rate. The Confederate states account for 7 of the worst 10, and for 10 of the worst 15.
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Unfortunately if you further isolated those states by rural/suburban vs urban areas, you'll find that the rural and suburban areas of the Dixie states have homicide rates more inline with the rest of America. For the most part, high homicide rates is a strictly urban problem.
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That unsupported claim is rather doubtful, given that West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Missouri, Louisiana, and Virginia are all among the 25 least urbanized of the US states. Of the 13 Confederate states, only Texas and Florida are more urban than the US average.

Furthermore, the three Confederate states with the lowest homicide rates (Texas, Florida, and Virginia) also happen to be the three that are most urbanized.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
That unsupported claim is rather doubtful, given that West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Missouri, Louisiana, and Virginia are all among the 25 least urbanized of the US states. Of the 13 Confederate states, only Texas and Florida are more urban than the US average.

Furthermore, the three Confederate states with the lowest homicide rates (Texas, Florida, and Virginia) also happen to be the three that are most urbanized.
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https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/gun-violence-rates-in-rural-areas-match-or-outpace-cities

https://www.wsj.com/story/murder-rates-soar-in-rural-america-bb431022
 
You know, after the Dunblane massacre, we didn't analyse whether the shooter was black or white, rich or poor, from Scotland or England, SNP or Tory. We just outlawed the guns.

I realise the such an extreme measure is not going to work in the USA in the near future, but the beauty of effective gun control, probably even effective gun control within the framework of 2A, is that it works by depriving whoever is going to commit the gun crime of their guns, no matter what reason they had for doing the crime.

If you want to stop people shooting each other - any people, anywhere - take away their guns.


If you want to argue about who is doing it and why, that's fine but just remember that, even excluding suicides, you have the equivalent of a 9/11 every two months in slaughter by gun.
 
Hercules56 said:
The top ten metro areas for violent crime rate, 6 are in the North.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Metropolitan_areas

Of the top 100 cities with the highest murder rates, 60 are not in the Dixie states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
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If you combine those factoids with the facts I stated, you will find them consistent with the hypothesis that the high homicide rates of the ex-Confederate states have more to do with their high rates of homicide in non-urban areas than with your belief that homicide rates are always higher in urban areas than in non-urban areas.

lobosrul5 helpfully provided some actual evidence in support of that hypothesis.

lobosrul5 said:
https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/gun-violence-rates-in-rural-areas-match-or-outpace-cities

https://www.wsj.com/story/murder-rates-soar-in-rural-america-bb431022
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Quoting from the first of lobosrul5's links:
The truth is that rural communities—particularly in red states—have increasingly faced levels of gun violence that match or outpace urban areas
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Most of the ex-Confederate states are red states, and the few that aren't are purple rather than blue.

ETA:
Overall, the total gun death rate for rural communities—when age-adjusted per 100,000 people—was 40 percent higher than it was for large metropolitan areas in 2020.
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Rural Lowndes County, Alabama was the US county with the second-highest rate of gun homicides between 2016 and 2020. With 48+ gun homicides per 100,000 residents, its rate of homicides by gun has been more than 50% higher than Washington DC's rate for all homicides regardless of weapon.

Several of the most prolific contributors to this thread appear to have misinformed themselves concerning these facts.
 
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Shepherd said:
Uh, and according to the Census Bureau, Lowndes County, Alabama only has a population of around 10,0000 people, give or take, 73% of whom are black.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/lowndescountyalabama/PST045222

So, that would be what? Almost 5 homicides a year?! Wow! What the heck is going on there?!

Think there could be a family feud?!
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Quite a variety of likely motives in the first five homicides I found for that county in an online search.

There's domestic violence perpetrated by someone who had been in prison for murder only 9 months before, two guys that had been drinking and got into an argument, a 23-year-old victim of an as-then-unknown shooter, a homicide involving a convicted felon who illegally possessed a firearm as well as cocaine, and a shooting of a 43-year-old black man a little over a month ago.
 
Maine shooter believed businesses he targeted were 'broadcasting' he was a pedophile (Bangor Daily News, Nov 1, 2023)

Shortly after the shootings last Wednesday, an interview subject told police that 40-year-old Army reservist Robert R. Card II of Bowdoin had been “delusional” since a breakup in February and believed businesses and people, including family members who helped investigators in the hours following the shooting, were broadcasting that he was a pedophile.
(...)
One of Card’s brothers told police the night of the shootings that he had played cornhole with the shooter at Schemengees in the past. At that time, Card had falsely accused the bar’s manager, Joseph Walker, of calling him gay.
(...)
Card thought Gowell’s Shop and Save, a supermarket in Litchfield, and Mixers Nightclub and Lounge in Sabattus were among the businesses broadcasting that he was a pedophile. Those delusions intersected with his breakup and when he started wearing hearing aids, police were told.
(...)
Card’s behavior escalated in the summer when he was on an Army reserve detail in West Point, New York. On July 15, he accused three fellow soldiers of calling him a pedophile, saying he would “take care of it.” He was taken to a hospital the next day for an evaluation and spent two weeks at a New York mental health treatment facility not affiliated with the military.
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