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Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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Axxman300 said:
This is probably true in most countries. Incompetence and corruption go hand-in-hand. Some countries have lower standards than others, and a few have no standards. And this is why the MS Estonia sank.



You need to stop using that phrase. After 20+ years of the Global War on Terror, and watching Russia's "Military Operation" in Ukraine, it is painfully obvious there is no precision at all.



You ignore the storm, which is the primary factor of this sinking. The ship put to sea late. The caption sailed at flank speed into the waves, which were breaking high over the bow.



Wouldn't it make more sense to sink it after he left his office? And if he's all-powerful, why no sink it on an earlier sortie? And please show me where Bildt has acted in a nefarious way since leaving that office. He does nothing but work for peace, and social justice in Europe, I guess that makes him evil to some people.


Discussed, and debunked.



This is a lie.



As a normal person should expect with the bow visor gone and car ramp down, and the North Sea pouring in through the massive opening.



Another lie.



Who's military? Please say it was the Swiss Navy.



Submarine again? Maybe it was the HMS Bullocks.

And I could be wrong, but I think Sweden had telephones and radios in 1994. It's possible those crafty Swedes took advantage of this technology to communicate with the ships at sea, and the resources on shore. Call me crazy.
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Whoa! Wait a minute. Bildt is the good guy. He was only doing what his defence chief instructed him to do.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
What is your source for these claims?

At what time do you claim Bildt was told, and how does that compare with the time Finnish coastguards informed their Swedish counterparts of the mayday from the Estonia?

And we may as well ask the other obvious question: what was this fantasy submarine there for? What do you imagine a submarine escorting a passenger ferry was expected to do if anything untoward happened?
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Reports at the times say Bildt was called out of a leaving party to be imparted information. He has always refused to say when he first heard of the incident. Yet the Estonian PM and the Finnish one remember it vivdly: they received a phone call in the middle of the night at 4:00 am.

Former head of the Estonia disaster expert committee Margus Kurm says that it is likely MS Estonia sank after colliding with a Swedish submarine that was guarding military equipment on board the Estlink passenger ferry. Kurm worked with the team of a new Discovery Channel Sweden documentary investigating the shipwreck.
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https://news.postimees.ee/7073877/head-of-expert-committee-coverup-without-end

Remember: Kurm was the Estonian State Prosecutor, not some obscure conspiracy theorist behind a keyboard.
 
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Here_to_learn said:
Well, one could argue that Bildts last day as PM was on Oct 7th while Estonia sank on Sep 28th but I guess that's either a Timezone issue, or just shows how powerful CIA/Bildt/Russians/... are to be able to manipulate the calendar like that.
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We are talking about Bildt's last official day having lost the election. Of course he had to stand in during the handover phase, until Persson (..?) was sworn in.

ETA: Actually Ingvar Carlsson was elected. The Elections were on 18 Sept 1994. Leaving party for Bildt was on 28 Sept 1994.
 
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MarkCorrigan said:
Absolute classic example of Vixen quoting a long post with multiple points and only addressing one of them in a way that doesn't even adequately address the point she deigns to respond to.

You know we can all see you doing this Vixen, right? That you've done it more than once on the last couple of pages alone?
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The comments were noted. Nothing to add.
 
Here_to_learn said:
What last official day? The election was on sep 18th. The parliament vote to confirm the new PM was on oct 6th.

Be specific, and ensure that you link to a relevant source.
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Carl Bildt's leaving party was on 28 September 1994, the night of the disaster.

Here you go:

(1) Carl Bildt – Prime Minister until October 7, 1994 - (Interview No. I/13):
The interview took place in the presence of Gun Hellsvik (3) Minister of Justice and Olaf Ehrenkrona* (not interviewed) – Head of the Planning Department in the Prime Minister’s office.
During the evening of 27 to 28 September 1994 the Bildt Government was celebrating the farewell party in the Prime Minister’s office at Rosenbad** together with their political civil servants. Bildt and some others were just about to leave when Bildt got the message*** that a Finland ferry was in trouble. He does not remember from whom. He turned around and went back to his office and subsequently made several phone calls during the night, among others with the prime ministers of Estonia and Finland. At about 06.00 hours he spoke to his successor Ingvar Carlsson.
At 07.00-07.30 hours the head of the Prime Minister’s office, Olaf Ehrenkrona arrived. In the morning there was a cabinet meeting. It was decided to hold a meeting of the prime ministers of Estonia, Finland and Sweden the same afternoon in Turku.
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Estonia Ferry Disaster
 
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Vixen said:
They were Axxman's opinions and he is entitled to them. One doesn't have to pass comment on everything.
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You do if they directly challenge your unevidenced assertions.

Which are all of your assertions, let's be honest.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
What is your source for these claims?

At what time do you claim Bildt was told, and how does that compare with the time Finnish coastguards informed their Swedish counterparts of the mayday from the Estonia?

And we may as well ask the other obvious question: what was this fantasy submarine there for? What do you imagine a submarine escorting a passenger ferry was expected to do if anything untoward happened?
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At that time, none of the Swedish subs could have kept pace with the Estonia unless it was on the surface.
In the weather conditions at the time it would not have been able to keep up even on the surface.
 
Vixen said:
Carl Bildt's leaving party was on 28 September 1994, the night of the disaster.

Here you go:

Estonia Ferry Disaster
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Who cares? What difference does it make if he extended his term a week to your CT claims? And btw wiki mentions nothing about the next PM being delayed in assuming his office... do you think it's likely they wouldn't note that???Do you think no one ever has a celebration a few days early for retirement/ end of office???

This is like tangent number 100 that doesn't even matter but for which you are wrong anyways!
 
lobosrul5 said:
Who cares? What difference does it make if he extended his term a week to your CT claims? And btw wiki mentions nothing about the next PM being delayed in assuming his office... do you think it's likely they wouldn't note that???Do you think no one ever has a celebration a few days early for retirement/ end of office???

This is like tangent number 100 that doesn't even matter but for which you are wrong anyways!
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Everything matters in this vast conspiracy. Vixen will soon be telling us that the Estonia was built in 1980 for the express purpose of sinking it in 1994 in order to cover up..... something. Every step was carefully planned including selection of the correct crew, election of the right politicians, selection of incompetent rescue personnel. the planting of bombs and radioactive material during construction, assignment of the correct wheeled submarine to shadow the ship, etc. Nothing was left to chance from the very beginning.
 
Vixen said:
We are talking about Bildt's last official day having lost the election. Of course he had to stand in during the handover phase, until Persson (..?) was sworn in.

ETA: Actually Ingvar Carlsson was elected. The Elections were on 18 Sept 1994. Leaving party for Bildt was on 28 Sept 1994.
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I'm confused. All this talk of it being the last official day for Bildt is just supposed to mean that this was the day of a party celebrating his tenure? He still served as PM for over a week?

So, this day was absolutely insignificant in terms of his political power, right? It wasn't his last day in any sense at all. He wasn't handing over power at midnight, it wasn't the day of the election, nothing like that. In fact, midnight itself was an insignificant time in an insignificant day, contrary to all you've said up 'til now, right?
 
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