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Cont: Transwomen are not women part XII (also merged)

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I wonder if TurkeysGhost missed this, or has nothing.

TurkeysGhost, would you mind outlining the statements or actions by JKR which justify her being referred to as a Nazi (or even a TERF for that matter). I’ll bet you can’t.
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lionking said:
I wonder if TurkeysGhost missed this, or has nothing.
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I'm guessin' its....

Yougotnothin.jpg
 
Brainster said:
It's actually quite funny how often we see this "exist" formulation. Indeed one of the most common claims that TRA have in their bag is that somehow we are denying that they exist, which of course would be pretty foolish. They exist and they are human beings, quite obviously.
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I assume that in any sufficiently large population of human beings there were always some women who sincerely wish they were men, and vice-versa. There are also fat people who wish they were fit, old people who wish they were young, poor people who wish they were prosperous, distinctive ethnic or religious minorities who wish they were part of the majority, etc. Some of these things really can change over time (e.g. fitness) and others can never be achieved once lost (e.g. youth). I think the difference in perspective here is that some people (such as Boudicca90) believe sex can be effectively changed and others think it is too deeply ingrained. No one seriously questions the existence of people who want to go through the change.
 
lionking said:
I wonder if TurkeysGhost missed this, or has nothing.
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Rowling all but admits to being a TERF in her manifesto. I mean, whether or not you find this perspective objectionable is a matter of opinion, but it seems rather unambiguous that Rowling's position is textbook TERF, relying heavily on biological essentialism.

I'm not entirely sure what exactly you're asking about. Rowling has been quite vocal in opposing the common demands of the modern transgender rights movement. Whether or not that's reasonable or makes her a reactionary is again a matter of opinion, but don't play dumb and pretend you don't understand where the root of the complaint lies.

Anyway, you can read her own words on the subject here:

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
Rowling all but admits to being a TERF in her manifesto. I mean, whether or not you find this perspective objectionable is a matter of opinion, but it seems rather unambiguous that Rowling's position is textbook TERF, relying heavily on biological essentialism.

I'm not entirely sure what exactly you're asking about. Rowling has been quite vocal in opposing the common demands of the modern transgender rights movement. Whether or not that's reasonable or makes her a reactionary is again a matter of opinion, but don't play dumb and pretend you don't understand where the root of the complaint lies.

Anyway, you can read her own words on the subject here:

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
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I am absolutely aware of that article. So as I suspected, you have nothing.

It is unbelievable lazy, and disgraceful as well, to label anyone a Nazi on such ridiculous stuff. I was going to say “evidence” instead of “stuff” but what you have linked doesn’t deserve that word.
 
d4m10n said:
If I were to accuse someone of promoting fascism, I'd take the trouble of listing out the key elements of fascism and showing whether or not they fit the bill.
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I imagine Judith Butler is aware. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss such claims as being rooted in ignorance just because you don't agree with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2021/oct/23/judith-butler-gender-ideology-backlash

An op-ed that talks at length about the role that reactionary backlashes, in this case specifically reactionary panic about gender norms, plays in radicalizing populations into fascist positions.

As a fascist trend, the anti-gender movement supports ever strengthening forms of authoritarianism. Its tactics encourage state powers to intervene in university programs, to censor art and television programming, to forbid trans people their legal rights, to ban LGBTQI people from public spaces, to undermine reproductive freedom and the struggle against violence directed at women, children, and LGBTQI people. It threatens violence against those, including migrants, who have become cast as demonic forces and whose suppression or expulsion promises to restore a national order under duress.

That is why it makes no sense for “gender critical” feminists to ally with reactionary powers in targeting trans, non-binary, and genderqueer people. Let’s all get truly critical now, for this is no time for any of the targets of this movement to be turning against one another. The time for anti-fascist solidarity is now.
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lionking said:
I am absolutely aware of that article. So as I suspected, you have nothing.

It is unbelievable lazy, and disgraceful as well, to label anyone a Nazi on such ridiculous stuff. I was going to say “evidence” instead of “stuff” but what you have linked doesn’t deserve that word.
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Like I said, it's one thing to disagree and another to pretend that the insults are entirely baseless.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
Like I said, it's one thing to disagree and another to pretend that the insults are entirely baseless.
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No pretence required. They are entirely baseless. Where is there evidence of JKR’s Naziism?

It’s far easier for you to do a Fonzie and say you are wrong, but I don’t expect to see pigs flying by.
 
lionking said:
No pretence required. They are entirely baseless. Where is there evidence of JKR’s Naziism?

It’s far easier for you to do a Fonzie and say you are wrong, but I don’t expect to see pigs flying by.
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I never accused Rowling of being a Nazi. It's much more coherent and less potentially confusing to call her a TERF.
 
If I were to accuse someone of promoting TERFism, I'd take the trouble of listing out the key elements of TERFism and showing whether or not they fit the bill.

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d4m10n said:
If I were to accuse someone of promoting TERFism, I'd take the trouble of listing out the key elements of TERFism and showing whether or not they fit the bill.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
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You never answered my question in good faith and returned the courtesy I showed you, so no. Try google.
 
ICYMI

I already answered your question, more than once.

TurkeysGhost said:
What do you think was the motivation of someone to remove their comment about Rowling after being contacted by her lawyers about a potential defamation suit?
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d4m10n said:
The sort of people who casually throw around false accusations of Nazism are not known for mea culpas, in my experience. Given that you framed your original question as a dilemma between a genuine mea culpa and exactly one other option, I'm willing to speculate that the other option is more likely. That said, it would be at least mildly uncharitable to presume that they could not possibly have retracted the accusation of Nazism having considered the state of the evidence at hand.
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If we really wanted to know their motivation, though, we'd have to ask them.
 
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And JKRowling is winning hearts and minds while Judith Butler is a fading post modern derelict.
JKR just retweeted her essay, a typical comment:

Your courage is inspiring and your tenacity is paying off. My teen daughter recently said to me (slightly reluctantly) that “you were right about JK Rowling, mum”. Believe me from the polar opposite places we stood two years ago, this is huge.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Sex is a reality - it is observable and can be objectively verified. Gender is a belief that can never be observed and is entirely subjective and unverifiable.
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I've had a hard time understanding what's commonly believed in the trans community, especially when everything seemed so fluid for a while. Googling for biology/sociology distinctions a few weeks ago, I came across a thread on subreddit MtF titled, "No trans person believes you can change biological sex, but sex and gender are two different things."

The top reply inverts this:

It has been a controversial opinion when I talked about it in the past, but my understanding is that it's the complete opposite (edit: referring to your post title). You can't change your gender, since it's innate to you. You can only discover it (or them, in some cases), especially when it doesn't match your assigned one.
Sex, on the other hand, can be changed, at least many aspects of it, since it is, to a large extent, an accumulation of physical and endocrinological characteristics.

Commenters go on to talk about how the average person and cis people are ignorant of human biology/endocrinology.
 
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