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Cont: Transwomen are not women part XII (also merged)

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I’m not familiar with this either - please can you supply more details? I take it there was a legal case (libel?) because Gary Lineker said some MPs were like Nazis? What was the result?

Uh, there you go.



https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...olicy-nazi-germany-match-of-the-day-presenter

A defiant Gary Lineker has hit back at his critics and thanked his supporters after reports the BBC will have a “frank conversation” with the Match of the Day presenter following comments he made comparing Home Office immigration policy to Nazi Germany.

Lineker tweeted on Wednesday: “Great to see the freedom of speech champions out in force this morning demanding silence from those with whom they disagree.”
 
Question: is there a significant difference between the fight for Gay Rights and the fight for Transgender rights?

Yes.

The fight for gay rights sought to provide equal treatment under the law to any other person. It was largely a campaign to 1) decriminalize homosexual intercourse and 2) allow same-sex couples to have access to the same treatment in law as opposite-sex couples.

The second included not just the right to marriage in the casual sense, but the right to access tax breaks afforded to households, the right to be next of kin for one's legal partner, the right to inherit automatically without needing to be specified in a will, the right to make medical decisions on behalf of an incapacitated partner, and the right to obtain common-law spousal protections for long-term partnerships without a formal marriage.

Those are things that any opposite sex couple have a right to, and which were definitively denied to homosexual people.

Nothing that was sought as part of the campaign for gay rights imposed an obligation on other people, nor did it in any way interfere with any other person's rights.

The same is not the case for transgender rights, generally speaking.

First off, let's be clear: There are some protections that I think transgender people should absolutely have. They should not be denied employment, housing, or access to public services on the basis of how they present.

The problem is that the things that are being demanded under the guise of rights are not rights in the first place, nor are they in any way equal. What is most often being demanded are special privileges - and ones that are obtained by directly reducing the rights of others.

Almost all of the "rights" being demanded require that a person's claimed gender identity be granted primacy over other people's material sex. Thus, the demand that transgender people be granted the privilege of using toilets, showers, changing rooms, and prisons on the basis of their said-out-loud gender identity where for everyone else use is based on the material reality of their sexed bodies. This is, in effect, granting one group the right to violate other people's rights on the basis of their personal beliefs.

When we look at the impact of these demands, one thing we see is that there is an extremely disparate impact. Granting transgender identified females the right to override sex-based policies and grant access to male-only spaces presents no material risk to the males who use those spaces. It does not increase the risk of males being exploited, abused, harassed, or assaulted by females who present as "men". The rate of sexual offenses committed by females against males is extraordinarily low.

On the other hand, granting transgender identified males the right to override sex-based policies and grant access to female-only spaces DOES present a material risk to the females who use those spaces. The rate of sexual offenses committed by males against females is very high - and there is existing evidence that transgender identified males retain male patterns of criminality and sexual offenses. There is no evidence to support the narrative that transgender identified males are no threat to females.
 
I don't think well qualified barristers (KC's) are known for being cheap.

I wouldn't expect them to be cheap... but I have the impression that private barristers of all sorts in the UK are generally less expensive than in the US, and that publicly provided barristers are actually pretty good. But it's an impression, and may very well be entirely wrong :)
 
I wouldn't expect them to be cheap... but I have the impression that private barristers of all sorts in the UK are generally less expensive than in the US, and that publicly provided barristers are actually pretty good. But it's an impression, and may very well be entirely wrong :)

I think relying on a public defender in a civil lawsuit brought about by a billionaire (or 800x millionaire in Pound Sterling) would be a truly awful idea. Although AFAIK if the defendant was an American citizen, had no assets in the UK, and never visited the UK they could ignore the case. You must have a judgement against you in US court in civil matters to have your property seized. This is different from criminal prosecution in which we have extradition treaties.

But I don't know if its the same for a Canadian.
 
Uh, there you go.



https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...olicy-nazi-germany-match-of-the-day-presenter

A defiant Gary Lineker has hit back at his critics and thanked his supporters after reports the BBC will have a “frank conversation” with the Match of the Day presenter following comments he made comparing Home Office immigration policy to Nazi Germany.

Lineker tweeted on Wednesday: “Great to see the freedom of speech champions out in force this morning demanding silence from those with whom they disagree.”


So, no legal case and he didn’t compare any MPs to Nazis. Gotcha.
 
#158

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You dodged the question. I have been very patient with your questions, have a tiny bit of courtesy and stand by your offer.

What do you think was the motivation of someone to remove their comment about Rowling after being contacted by her lawyers about a potential defamation suit?
 
You dodged the question. I have been very patient with your questions, have a tiny bit of courtesy and stand by your offer.

What do you think was the motivation of someone to remove their comment about Rowling after being contacted by her lawyers about a potential defamation suit?

Legal jeopardy?
Changed their mind?

Who cares? IDGARA!
 
Helen Joyce delivers a withering and perfectly reasoned attack on Oxfam in this video at minute 48 40 from Spectator TV

https://youtu.be/NMYr3_h8QLA

No, Oxfam should have zero to do with men who wish to be women she argues at the end.
 
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I'm still scratching my head that we're now in a world where if a female lesbian is categorically not into dick, they are a "bigot". If a gay male is categorically not into vag, they are a "bigot".

It's seriously "Lesbians are only lesbians until they sample MY MAGNIFICANT COCK"...

We're not and literally no one here has said that.
 
I think relying on a public defender in a civil lawsuit brought about by a billionaire (or 800x millionaire in Pound Sterling) would be a truly awful idea. Although AFAIK if the defendant was an American citizen, had no assets in the UK, and never visited the UK they could ignore the case. You must have a judgement against you in US court in civil matters to have your property seized. This is different from criminal prosecution in which we have extradition treaties.

But I don't know if its the same for a Canadian.

The US has laws protecting citizens from foreign defamation suits. A shoddy verdict from TERF island would not be enforceable in the US

The Securing the Protection of our Enduring and Established Constitutional Heritage (SPEECH) Act is a 2010 federal statutory law in the United States that makes foreign libel judgments unenforceable in U.S. courts, unless either the foreign legislation applied offers at least as much protection as the U.S. First Amendment (concerning free speech), or the defendant would have been found liable even if the case had been heard under U.S. law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act

This law was passed because it was possible for people to go venue shopping in backwards countries with lousy speech protections (like TERF island) to sanction US citizens for 1A protected speech.
 
What do you think was the motivation of someone to remove their comment about Rowling after being contacted by her lawyers about a potential defamation suit?
The sort of people who casually throw around false accusations of Nazism are not known for mea culpas, in my experience. Given that you framed your original question as a dilemma between a genuine mea culpa and exactly one other option, I'm willing to speculate that the other option is more likely. That said, it would be at least mildly uncharitable to presume that they could not possibly have retracted the accusation of Nazism having considered the state of the evidence at hand.

Out of curiosity, which bits of Nazism would you personally attribute to JKR?
 
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I’m not familiar with this either - please can you supply more details? I take it there was a legal case (libel?) because Gary Lineker said some MPs were like Nazis? What was the result?
Not a legal case, but he was suspended by the BBC for a tweet describing a government policy as "an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s". After a tremendous show of solidarity from his colleagues he was reinstated. More details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker#2023_controversy_and_suspension_from_Match_of_the_Day

ETA: apologies, didn't notice there was another page.
 
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You dodged the question. I have been very patient with your questions, have a tiny bit of courtesy and stand by your offer.

What do you think was the motivation of someone to remove their comment about Rowling after being contacted by her lawyers about a potential defamation suit?

They were wrong.
 
I'm still scratching my head that we're now in a world where if a female lesbian is categorically not into dick, they are a "bigot". If a gay male is categorically not into vag, they are a "bigot".

It's seriously "Lesbians are only lesbians until they sample MY MAGNIFICANT COCK"...

I kinda call this "Tuckering" an argument to decribe this type of stuff. From my limited seeing of Tucker Carlson he was a avid user of this:

1) a weak cop out as a preface to give some plausible deniability as to "it wasn't my argument"
2) Strawmanning and making a totally irrelevant or misrepresenting argument about it

And then finally the great Tucker Tourette statement that is so disgusting and obnoxious that everyone goes ewww.

Next article will be about how "someone" claims the Tucker Tourette outburst and some weird pondering on are they right or not.

It's a dishonest and transparent echo-chamber garbage. If you indeed make a statement that:

we're now in a world where if a female lesbian is categorically not into dick, they are a "bigot". If a gay male is categorically not into vag, they are a "bigot".

Don't be coy and try to attribute it to someone else to isolate from possible backslash. If you can back it up, go for it.
 
I kinda call this "Tuckering" an argument to decribe this type of stuff. From my limited seeing of Tucker Carlson he was a avid user of this:

1) a weak cop out as a preface to give some plausible deniability as to "it wasn't my argument"
2) Strawmanning and making a totally irrelevant or misrepresenting argument about it

And then finally the great Tucker Tourette statement that is so disgusting and obnoxious that everyone goes ewww.

Next article will be about how "someone" claims the Tucker Tourette outburst and some weird pondering on are they right or not.

It's a dishonest and transparent echo-chamber garbage. If you indeed make a statement that:



Don't be coy and try to attribute it to someone else to isolate from possible backslash. If you can back it up, go for it.
Weird.
That is exactly how the trans activists play it.
A lot of us ordinary men are appalled to be of the same sex as these delusional men.
 
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