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Merged Proud Boys on trial/ Not So Proud......

Stacyhs said:
I've often wondered the same thing about people who send money to Elmer Gantry types.

Let's face it: a lot of people are just dumb.
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Or as President Lincoln famously and Doctor Who famously said “You can fool some of the people all of the time.”.
 
dudalb said:
Extremes feed off each other.
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Even when one isn't really what people say it is?

And yes, despite hating facists, I think a lot of the ANTIFA were pretty extreme.
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well, when the state provokes attacks on you and takes away the legal recourse you are supposed to have, what actions are you supposed to take?

TOo many of them considered anybody not as far to the left as they were to be fascist.
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Let me know when they start getting support by the government at every (or any) level.

Anyway, these fools will have a nice stay at Leveanworth ahead of them.
Unless Donnie gets in again an they are pardoned to become leaders in his versin of the SA....
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Or they get light sentences because they happen to be cops.
 
Disbelief said:
No legal way to do it with a domestic group.



https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-does-terrorist-designation-mean#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20legal%20mechanism,designating%20foreign%20actors%20are%20plentiful.
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I think I should have known that - can't see how it hasn't come up here some time in the past.

That seems a serious omission in being able to keep society safe. Why should it matter if a group is a foreign group or a domestic group if they are trying to create terror in the USA?
 
Darat said:
I think I should have known that - can't see how it hasn't come up here some time in the past.

That seems a serious omission in being able to keep society safe. Why should it matter if a group is a foreign group or a domestic group if they are trying to create terror in the USA?
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Probably because if it were possible, someone in power would find ways to abuse the use of it and get their followers up in arms. I understand why it should be used, but someone would prove once again why we don't deserve nice things.
 
Darat said:
Why hasn't it been made a terrorist group and outlawed?
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Terrorists like Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch, who killed civilians with bombs, weren't even considered to be terrorists. The alleged war on terror is a joke:
Other critics further noted that the American government granted political asylum to several alleged terrorists and terrorist organizations that seek to overthrow Fidel Castro's regime, while the American government claims to be anti-terrorism.
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Terror is only terror if it is directed at the USA, or maybe one of its allies.
It is the reason why it may damage your career to just doubt that American diplomats or CIA agents were targeted by directed energy weapons or, more recently, to claim that Iranian schoolgirls maybe weren't actually poisoned by the Islamic state.
'Cancel culture' is funny that way ...

ETA: A memorial in Barbados erected in recognition of the 73 people killed in the crash of Cubana Flight 455 (Wikipedia). The perpetrator of the 'crash' lived and died a free man in the USA.
 
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I'm not surprised that America has never adopted a mechanism by which to classify domestic terrorists as such.

A nation which permits an insane degree of ready availability of guns and accepts an annual toll of ten 9/11s by its own citizens blowing each other away is hopelessly conditioned to this blind spot. If but a fraction of that blood-letting were perpetrated by foreign nationals the country would go to full-blown war. As it has done before.

This is a schizoid level of dichotomy.
 
To be fair, I'm not sure I'd trust the government to make that distinction. Mainly because a lot of people who would qualify as "domestic terrorists" under an objective standard will probably be among those writing and enforcing such laws.
 
Indeed, recall all the constant efforts to get Antifa declared a terrorist organization by the right wing during the previous administration.
 
Darat said:
Why hasn't it been made a terrorist group and outlawed?
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It's not that easy to do in the US.
The US Legal system does not deal in mass guilt;it focuses on individual crime.
You can't get sent to jail just for belonging to an organization; you have to be convicted of an actual crime as an individual.
KKK is a terrorist oranization, but it has never been a crime to just being a member of a Klan.
The feeling is..and I agree..you do not want to give the government the power to convict on "guilty by association" alone.
 
Darat said:
I think I should have known that - can't see how it hasn't come up here some time in the past.

That seems a serious omission in being able to keep society safe. Why should it matter if a group is a foreign group or a domestic group if they are trying to create terror in the USA?
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You go after them, but you try them as individuals.
US legal viewpoint is that simply making membership of an organization a crime is it comes too close to being a bill of attainder..SOme President could declare an oppostion party a terrorist group.
We Americans are suspicisous of government; we don'thave the blind faith that some have in other coutnries that won't abuse it's power.
 
Donal said:
To be fair, I'm not sure I'd trust the government to make that distinction. Mainly because a lot of people who would qualify as "domestic terrorists" under an objective standard will probably be among those writing and enforcing such laws.
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It would amount to ba bill of attainder...which the Constituion specifically forbids.
 
That is one of the differences between Americans and a lot of people in Europe; we have a basic mistrust of government; power corrupts.
 
dudalb said:
That is one of the differences between Americans and a lot of people in Europe; we have a basic mistrust of government; power corrupts.
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Perhaps the most famous quote about power and corruption is from Lord Acton.
 
Bad rubbish whom will be pardoned by Trump or DeSantis.


ETA: Should the worst happen.
 
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dudalb said:
It's not that easy to do in the US.

The US Legal system does not deal in mass guilt;it focuses on individual crime.

You can't get sent to jail just for belonging to an organization; you have to be convicted of an actual crime as an individual.

KKK is a terrorist oranization, but it has never been a crime to just being a member of a Klan.

The feeling is..and I agree..you do not want to give the government the power to convict on "guilty by association" alone.
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That's special pleading since the USA does all that to foreign terrorist groups.
 
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