Split Thread Atheism and lack of belief in the afterlife

[acbytesla]

Did I miss the post where you even once addressed your conflating of ID and IC?

I'm totally confused in regards to GDon's position. My question to him is does he believe that creationists/ ID proponents/ the Discovery Institute/ Answers in Genesis are actually performing science in their attempts to promote their hypothesis? What falsifiable tests have they performed or proposed to support it?

Are they ancient Norsemen saying the God Zeus is responsible for lightning? Or are they Ben Franklin saying lightning is electrical in nature and designing experiments for that? Einstein proposed an experiment to confirm Relativity. Higgs proposed the bosun and then the world set out to prove/disprove its existence.

Mankind has been saying that a God being created Earth, the universe and the life upon it for thousands of years. And so far none of the supporters has proposed a falsifiable test for any hypothesis that supports their theory of a designer created universe/earth/life.

In fact, what I hear very often from believers is they will believe not only if no evidence is available to support the God theory, but if the evidence contradicts it.

These people are not practicing science.

 

[Leumas]

...
These people are not practicing science.

But if they have enough money and start grifting organizations and give them hoodwinking names ending in INSTITUTE they can hoax enough imbeciles into thinking that they are doing science.

How I wish I had enough Christian proselytizing CONCERNS to give me some of their billion$ to found my Soul's Quantum Packet Centonization Institute.

 

[GDon]

Did I miss the post where you even once addressed your conflating of ID and IC?

No, where did I do that? Can you quote me? Thanks.

If there is any statement of mine that you disagree with or are not sure about, please feel free to quote me. I'm happy to discuss any of my comments. It's more difficult to discuss comments I've never actually made though.

 

[Leumas]

No, where did I do that? Can you quote me? Thanks.

Will you be concerned to cheer for my Soul's Quantum Packet Centonization Institute when it manages one day to overturn the scientific consensus and make Soul Centonization an accepted scientific theory?

I will soon be having a peer reviewed paper all ratified by the scientists at the Journal for the Institute Of Orgonomic Science.

 

[GDon]

I'm totally confused in regards to GDon's position.

If there is any statement of mine that you disagree with or are not sure about, please feel free to quote me.

My question to him is does he believe that creationists/ ID proponents/ the Discovery Institute/ Answers in Genesis are actually performing science in their attempts to promote their hypothesis?

They believe they are, yes, definitely! How can you deny it? And ID proponents have published articles in peer reviewed journals. Again, how can you deny it? And those articles have been shown to be wrong. And that is science at work.

What falsifiable tests have they performed or proposed to support it?

IC. Their tests failed, therefore ID fails.

 

[Leumas]

I'm totally confused in regards to GDon's position. My question to him is does he believe that creationists/ ID proponents/ the Discovery Institute/ Answers in Genesis are actually performing science in their attempts to promote their hypothesis? What falsifiable tests have they performed or proposed to support it?

They believe they are, yes, definitely! How can you deny it? And ID proponents have published articles in peer reviewed journals. Again, how can you deny it? And those articles have been shown to be wrong. And that is science at work.

The question was DO YOU believe they are doing science... not what THEY believe.

What falsifiable tests have they performed or proposed to support it?

IC. Their tests failed, therefore ID fails.

Again the question was WHAT tests... did they ask Jesus to make some cells and they prayed and prayed and when nothing happened they concluded that Imbecilic Design is to intelligent for Jesus???



Try to answer the questions please... and while you are at it can you also answer these...

...
Hey GDon... why are you not aware of all that "doing science" the scientists at the Institute Of Orgnomic Science are researching there? Will you be cheering for it WHEN one day they overturn the "scientific consensus"???

Will you be concerned to cheer for my Soul's Quantum Packet Centonization Institute when it manages one day to overturn the scientific consensus and make Soul Centonization an accepted scientific theory? ...

Would you say the same about a Flat Earth article if its writers managed to hoodwink or purchase venal scientists to publish their article about how Flat Earth is a valid scientific theory?

Come on... would you even for a second congratulate the bamboozled "journal" for being brave to publish the Flat Earth article???
...

...
Do you think some christian scientist eg. Francis Collins publishing a paper about the human genome project and having it peer approved has any relationship whatsoever to his christian views?

Did the peer review process review his views on Jesus' resurrection and approve that by approving his human genome paper??

What do you think of a christian apologist who harps on and on about Francis Collins having had peer reviewed papers in a discussion about Jesus' resurrection and tells us that Jesus' resurrection is science because Francis Collins has had science papers peer reviewed and published???...

 

[Nessie]

...

The first few centuries would certainly be just playing catch-up to all the things we didn't have the time or resources to do on Earth, so that's a gimme.

....

That assumes you will have perfect health and the ability to do anything you want. Then, once you have done everything on earth, how do you get to anywhere else? Have you the super ability to survive all atmospheres and cross light years?

If people like that existed, we would know about them.

 

[Darat]

Creationists want to use ID as a Trojan Horse to get credibility for creationism. ...snip...

Nope. Creationists created ID to try and fool people into thinking it wasn't creationism. Sadly you have fallen for their lies.

 

[Thermal]

That assumes you will have perfect health and the ability to do anything you want. Then, once you have done everything on earth, how do you get to anywhere else? Have you the super ability to survive all atmospheres and cross light years?

If people like that existed, we would know about them.

Well just to keep the game going:

Of course they dont exist yet. The rapture hasnt happened. When the dead are resurrected, they go on to live forever. That kind of automatically means a damage proof body, doesn't it? Immortality and all?

As far as travel arrangements are concerned, if something can raise the dead and make them immortal, I'm guessing it has the trains running on time.

 

[Nessie]

Well just to keep the game going:

Of course they dont exist yet. The rapture hasnt happened. When the dead are resurrected, they go on to live forever. That kind of automatically means a damage proof body, doesn't it? Immortality and all?

As far as travel arrangements are concerned, if something can raise the dead and make them immortal, I'm guessing it has the trains running on time.

Whether people go to heaven after their death, or after a rapture, my points stand. Immortality would become a form of torture.

 

[Thermal]

Whether people go to heaven after their death, or after a rapture, my points stand. Immortality would become a form of torture.

I hear that a lot, but I don't agree. As I said earlier, I don't remember what I had for dinner last week, so dinner tonight is essentially a new experience. Immortality is only a bummer to a certain kind of thinking, when you try to take it all in at once. If you are living in the moment, you quite literally wouldn't notice that the moment was never ending.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, where did I do that? Can you quote me? Thanks.

If there is any statement of mine that you disagree with or are not sure about, please feel free to quote me. I'm happy to discuss any of my comments. It's more difficult to discuss comments I've never actually made though.

Please reread my post and try again. How can I quote you when what I'm asking is have you even once addressed your conflating IC and ID?

You are ignoring the difference despite having it explained to you over and over they are not the same thing.

A designer cannot be tested for.
Challenging evolution theory which is what papers testing IC do does not test for a designer.

I can only assume you are ignoring this on purpose because you are enjoying the replies you get. Your reply to my post is a perfect example.

 

[Delvo]

The only way to make immortality a form of torture is to throw in extra details about what that immortality would be like to make it that way, which aren't built in to the concept of immortality inherently.

 

[Thermal]

Please reread my post and try again. How can I quote you when what I'm asking is have you even once addressed your conflating IC and ID?

You are ignoring the difference despite having it explained to you over and over they are not the same thing.

A designer cannot be tested for.
Challenging evolution theory which is what papers testing IC do does not test for a designer.

I can only assume you are ignoring this on purpose because you are enjoying the replies you get. Your reply to my post is a perfect example.

Sorry, but I don't think anyone else is using "IC", can you clarify what it means? I scrolled back a few pages and don't see it. Does it mean young earth creationism?

 

[Darat]

Whether people go to heaven after their death, or after a rapture, my points stand. Immortality would become a form of torture.

For Christians it's meant to be about a soul-merge with god, you pretty much lose your individuality.

 

[Thermal]

The only way to make immortality a form of torture is to throw in extra details about what that immortality would be like to make it that way, which aren't built in to the concept of immortality inherently.

I think the argument is that anything gets boring with too much repetition, and from an immortal standpoint, everything would be repeated so much that it couldn't conceivably remain enjoyable. People like change and variety, which you don't get if you are Groundhog Day-ing it.

 

[Thermal]

For Christians it's meant to be about a soul-merge with god, you pretty much lose your individuality.

Isn't that a pretty modern spin, lifted from Eastern thought? Biblically, the idea of ressurecting your own body and heavenly mansion and all seem to point towards a continuation of an individual existence.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone else is using "IC", can you clarify what it means? I scrolled back a few pages and don't see it. Does it mean young earth creationism?

IC = irreducible complexity
Sorry, I know it's annoying not to know what people are abbreviating but it is in the thread and it's been used in other threads discussing Intelligent Design.

The best I can do for having defined what I mean by IC is in post #693:

There is no irreducible complexity. Genetic research pushed evolution theory so far over the line as to have ruled out IC completely, end of story.

 

[Thermal]

IC = irreducible complexity
Sorry, I know it's annoying not to know what people are abbreviating but it is in the thread and it's been used in other threads discussing Intelligent Design.

No problem, the acronym just slipped my mind. Thanks for clarifying

 

[Olmstead]

No, where did I do that? Can you quote me? Thanks.

If there is any statement of mine that you disagree with or are not sure about, please feel free to quote me. I'm happy to discuss any of my comments. It's more difficult to discuss comments I've never actually made though.

Dear God, just summarise your point. All I got from this horrible detour is that peer-reviewed doesn't equate to being good scientific research.