Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The physical world is just one real of experience.

How do you know that?

Man is not meant to jump unprepared into the higher worlds until his natural lifespan comes to an end.

Who says so?

It is quite clear that men who do the things you describe would use psychic power for their own ends if they could et access to it. They would then be able to enslave others in ways which are far worse than anything they have done up to now. The veil is down to prevent humanity over reaching itself.

How is it quite clear?

We are here to learn by experience and act freely without proof of the existence of a deity. We will face karmic consequences for evil acts that may shape our future incarnations. It is not punishment as such but corrective experiences that will force changes in the soul.

How do you know that?

<snip>

This world is a meeting place for evolved and unevolved souls, and our interactions with one another is how we evolve.

How do you know that?

 

[JayUtah]

The physical world is just one real of experience.

If it doesn't exist in a world skeptics can test, then it doesn't meaningfully exist.

Queue Darat Who will now say I think little girls should be raped and murdered. But I don't. They may just be innocent victims of mans inhumanity and they will be compensated in future incarnations.

We've discussed many times the flaws in your moral worldview. You are simply incapable and unwilling of reconciling it. Darat keeps bringing it up because it's still a problem in your theology and you don't seem to have the capacity to see why.

In any case, it seems as if bringing up ESP and Russell Targ's books has just been a pretext for bringing up again all the same nonsense you've proven over and over you're either incapable of discussing and unwilling to let go of at this forum. They've all been thoroughly discussed many times.

 

[Scorpion]

I wonder what the excuse is for the failure of ESP to provide a means to diagnose illnesses, or prevent murders.

I've got it: those people had it coming. They did something to deserve to get cancer or to be raped and murdered, whatever their age.

I had a lot of spiritual healing in a spiritualist church when I first got ill. I could often feel it as heat. Not physical body heat but some kind of psychic energy.
I found out eventually that a lot of my symptoms were cause by my etheric body coming loose because of my mental suffering. My chakras were consequently miss aligned, and I could feel fire flowing through my body in the locations of the chakras. I saw a diagram of the chakras in the book 'alternative London' and immediately recognized the locations of the chakras as the places where I felt the fire. That is what started me going to a spiritualist church. Over time the healing worked, and the feeling of fire stopped.

So some people do get healed by alternative methods unknown to the psychiatric profession.

As for people deserving suffering I have just explained something of that.

 

[Scorpion]

If it doesn't exist in a world skeptics can test, then it doesn't meaningfully exist.



We've discussed many times the flaws in your moral worldview. You are simply incapable and unwilling of reconciling it. Darat keeps bringing it up because it's still a problem in your theology and you don't seem to have the capacity to see why.

In any case, it seems as if bringing up ESP and Russell Targ's books has just been a pretext for bringing up again all the same nonsense you've proven over and over you're either incapable of discussing and unwilling to let go of at this forum. They've all been thoroughly discussed many times.

Ha! I see a typo in my quote. It should have been 'realm of experience ' not real of experience.

As I have recently said I go on about these things for the benefit of people here that have not heard it before.

 

[Scorpion]

How do you know that?

Who says so?
How do you know that?

I spent years in the spiritualist association in London attending trance lectures by mediums who allowed a spirit to take over their bodies and speak through them. I have heard them speak of many things. One day a medium seemed to be taken in trance by the spirit of Sir Oliver Lodge.

I was also a member of the British Mediation society for several years.

I have a personal library of many books on many things, and one book case full of occult books. Many of which are by theosophists.

 

[Darat]

…snip…

Queue Darat Who will now say I think little girls should be raped and murdered. But I don't. They may just be innocent victims of mans inhumanity and they will be compensated in future incarnations.

This world is a meeting place for evolved and unevolved souls, and our interactions with one another is how we evolve.

Why should I say something I’ve never said?

What I have said is that according to you a 3 year old girl being kidnapped, raped by multiple men and then beheaded is being taught a lesson or deserved it.

 

[Darat]

Sorry for all the moves and PMs you’ve probably got. I merged the new thread into the original Scorpion’s Spiritualism thread - forgot there was a continuation thread.

Posted By: Darat

 

[Pixel42]

OK! I have saved that link and will read it. But as I have said on another thread, I have experienced telepathy myself. So a skeptical view of it does not wash with me.

The minimum standard of evidence that is required to convince a sceptic that you are interpreting your experiences correctly is - or should be - also the minimum evidence required to convince you yourself. It has been explained to you at length why your anecdotes do not come close to achieving that standard. Simply posting those anecdotes yet again is pointless, and I understand why your new thread was merged with the old one when you started doing that.

You did, however, in the OP of your new thread, offer Targ's book as what I presume you consider to be evidence that does meet that minimum standard. As you will have doubtless already gathered, those who have examined it critically disagree. We can explain to you exactly why that is, but that's also pointless if your mind is already firmly closed on that subject.

So read the article and, if you have comments, questions or counterarguments, by all means post them. I promise I at least will not just dismiss them, and will consider and address them seriously. But you must do the same if this is going to be a worthwhile discussion.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I cannot read other peoples minds, but that office worker could read mine.

Please say you didn't terrify that poor woman by accusing her of reading your mind.

 

[theprestige]

I was on the receiving end of a telepathic office worker, a young woman who helped the police try to give me a breakdown to make me have mental treatment. They did this because some dumb bastard who thought they were smarted than God because they probably had a degree in psychology mistakenly labeled me a psychopath.
They did not succeed in breaking my mind, but they did force to me give up my job. I have never been able to do anything about it because nobody would give me evidence, and believe me I hounded them to do so.

I cannot read other peoples minds, but that office worker could read mine.

Oh! I am also diagnosed a schizophrenic, and I daresay that will make you think my opinions are worthless delusions. Every psychiatrist I ever saw thought the same thing. But they know nothing about the spirit world just like all of you. I don't bother to talk to psychiatrists any longer, and have not done so for a couple of decades.

My apologies. I had forgotten this important context for your posts.

 

[Wolrab]

How much money are Apple, Alphabet Inc. or Amazon making from ESP?

Has Musk founded a company to exploit telepathy?

If they didn't use ESP, how can they put advertisements for things I only thought about!

 

[Chanakya]

I don't just do this here, I do it elsewhere, and particularly on twitter. I see it as what the spirit world wants me to do.

I'm curious about this.

1. Having, as you imagine, heard what the spirit world wants you to do, why exactly do you think it is so important to you to follow their instructions?

2. Do you imagine the spirit world is homogenous, and thinks just the one thought? Why? Might there not be factions there --- multitudes even, as in our world, and indeed a whole multitude of spirit worlds --- and you've only happened to catch one isolated strand so far? Even assuming it makes sense for you to kowtow to the spirit world, but how do you decide whether what you've heard represents all of that world?

-----

After all, you wouldn't blindly follow my words if I were to call you one day, and tell you, "Scorpion, it is your life's mission to thwart the evil Muslims, and the vile Jews, and atheists as well, and, oh, to give all your money to me, for use in my my divine purpose". (You wouldn't, right?). So, for all of those reasons why not, as applied to that voice, why do you think you are best served by listening to the voice in your head? Even assuming it is real, that voice, not hallucination?

 

[sackett]

The phrase "mad genius" is encountered fairly often, usually in fiction but sometimes in real life, applied to some eccentric or other. The term is likely to be used playfully or jokingly, but never in real, serious earnest.

How many genius madmen have you or anybody actually ever met -- or heard of -- or read about?

I've met a few poor souls who imagined that they were geniuses voyaging through great realms of esoteric truth, alone. They were indistinguishable from tiresome fools.

 

[Scorpion]

Please say you didn't terrify that poor woman by accusing her of reading your mind.

As a matter of fact, in the 18 months I worked there I never spoke to her. Nor did I accuse her of anything after I left. What I did do was write a 3 page letter to the managing director several years later asking her for information about why she had helped her staff to try to give me a breakdown. She did not reply so I started a 2 year siege of the company. Then their corporate lawyers Dibb Lupton Alsop wrote me a letter demanding I desist or they would get me charged with harassment. I wrote back the next day telling them to go ahead and charge me, and I would state they had no case because under harassment law you are allowed to try and prove evidence of a crime. (this is designed to allow the police to avoid harassment charges) But it worked for me too. I said I was trying to prove negligence and the abuse of a mentally ill person, both of which are crimes. I did not hear from their lawyers so I carried on besieging the company for another 2 years. Finally their lawyers accused me of nuisance calls, and there is no let out clause in that law so I had to stop contacting them.

 

[Scorpion]

I'm curious about this.

1. Having, as you imagine, heard what the spirit world wants you to do, why exactly do you think it is so important to you to follow their instructions?

2. Do you imagine the spirit world is homogenous, and thinks just the one thought? Why? Might there not be factions there --- multitudes even, as in our world, and indeed a whole multitude of spirit worlds --- and you've only happened to catch one isolated strand so far? Even assuming it makes sense for you to kowtow to the spirit world, but how do you decide whether what you've heard represents all of that world?

-----

After all, you wouldn't blindly follow my words if I were to call you one day, and tell you, "Scorpion, it is your life's mission to thwart the evil Muslims, and the vile Jews, and atheists as well, and, oh, to give all your money to me, for use in my my divine purpose". (You wouldn't, right?). So, for all of those reasons why not, as applied to that voice, why do you think you are best served by listening to the voice in your head? Even assuming it is real, that voice, not hallucination?

I think the spirit world will use anyone they can to give their message to the world. Because for one thing these are desperate times. There may even be a nuclear war, what with the likes of Putin and Kim Jong Un and Xi of China all threatening us. Maybe something I say on the internet will help some people to face these things.

As for Muslims, I am not sure if the spirit world wants me to try and deprogram them or not. But I am certain from everything I learned about Islam that it is evil lies about God, and therefore it need to be undermined by anyone who can do it. Maybe I can free Muslims of fear of Allah, because the Quran says fear Allah and obey the messenger over and over again. It is a dirty lie by Muhammad to control people using fear of hell he stole from the bible.

I have spent much of my life fighting against self doubt and thinking I was just mentally ill. But as I have got older I realized psychiatrists really do not understand many of the things I have experienced, and they just think I am deluded. But I have been in the world too long, and survived too much to be sold the line that just because I believe things and experience things they do not I am crazy.

 

[Pixel42]

"Either my interpretation of my experiences is correct or I'm crazy" is a false dichotomy which many believers in the paranormal construct.The most likely explanation is almost always that they are honestly mistaken, victims of their own cognitive biases and fallible perceptions and memories.

 

[Scorpion]

"Either my interpretation of my experiences is correct or I'm crazy" is a false dichotomy which many believers in the paranormal construct.The most likely explanation is almost always that they are honestly mistaken, victims of their own cognitive biases and fallible perceptions and memories.

As I say, I have had a lifetime to work that one out.

 

[Pixel42]

As I say, I have had a lifetime to work that one out.

A lifetime which has apparently not included any time spent informing yourself about cognitive biases, and how and why the scientific method can and should be used to eliminate their effect.

Have you read that article yet? It's not a long list of books, it's a brief article.

 

[Scorpion]

A lifetime which has apparently not included any time spent informing yourself about cognitive biases, and how and why the scientific method can and should be used to eliminate their effect.

Have you read that article yet? It's not a long list of books, it's a brief article.

The truth is the things I am absolutely certain about can be counted on my fingers. But as far as I am concerned those things are clear and certain evidence of telepathy and messages from the spirit world.

For example, I know telepathy exists because a friend of mine knew I was in trouble by telepathy. He ran up the road from his flat to mine and burst in asking me if I was alright. If he had not done so I might have had a breakdown that night, but he talked me down.

 

[Pixel42]

The truth is the things I am absolutely certain about can be counted on my fingers. But as far as I am concerned those things are clear and certain evidence of telepathy and messages from the spirit world.

For example, I know telepathy exists because a friend of mine knew I was in trouble by telepathy. He ran up the road from his flat to mine and burst in asking me if I was alright. If he had not done so I might have had a breakdown that night, but he talked me down.

If you had ever bothered to educate yourself about cognitive biases and the scientific method you would know why such anecdotes are a wholly inadequate basis on which to base any conclusion, let alone one which has mountains of objective evidence against it.

Have you read the article? You were the one who raised the subject of Targ's book, do you want an honest discussion of it or not?