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Electric universe theories here.

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Sol88 said:
The difference between the Birkeland currents at comets and the ones from the sun.

:D


I’d ask you but....:boxedin:
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There are no Birkeland currents at comets, and there are none coming from, or going to, the Sun. Care to link to anyone with a clue about plasma physics who is claiming otherwise? Thought not. Like I said, you just keep making **** up.
 
jonesdave116 said:
There are no Birkeland currents at comets, and there are none coming from, or going to, the Sun. Care to link to anyone with a clue about plasma physics who is claiming otherwise? Thought not. Like I said, you just keep making **** up.
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Tusenfem say yes, you say no.

:dl:
 
tusenfem said:
Sure, if you know what that means.



Well, you can call them unicorns, for all I care.
I am going to call them a "flux tube" or an "Evershed flow" or a "Birkeland current".
I don't really know what "force field aligned currents" are, and "power cables" is electronics and that is another department at my institute.
So, there is no one-term to call this collection, they have their own names because of a reason.



Nope, we need (plasma) physically correct names, otherwise we get non-sensical discussions, as is clear from this whole thread.



I have dealt with lots of stuff.



Nope, YOUR insistence that everything is the same, when it is clearly not the case, makes it look TO YOU that the names are "all over the shop".



No, a sheet is a sheet and a tube is a tube, they are topologically different. NOT EVERYTHING IS THE SAME.



If you keep your eyes closed it is difficult to see anything. If you are living in Rotterdam it is difficult to see a temple in Bangkok.



Wow, we agree on something.



There are NO CABLES in space, and now they are supposed to be nested too?
As this "big circuit" driving the Sun is an EU idea, and YOU are (one of the last) proponents, it is onto YOU to show that it works somehow.
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These are what the power cables are called, jd116.

Birkeland currents.

Do you need a nana nap? Aspirin?

Who’d thunk it....Don Scott thunked it.

here. The physical properties of the resulting intricate magnetic field structure are described. The cause of its characteristic counter-rotation and counter-flows are identified
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Now observed in the switchbacks and comets and planets...the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE.
 
There are electrons flowing into the poles of the Sun.

From where though...a big battery that tusenfem is looking for.
 
Sol88 said:
These are what the power cables are called, jd116.

Birkeland currents.

Do you need a nana nap? Aspirin?

Who’d thunk it....Don Scott thunked it.



Now observed in the switchbacks and comets and planets...the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE.
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Learn to read. He said nothing about Birkeland currents at comets. He was pointing out to the hard of thinking that Birkeland currents are Birkeland currents. That Evershed flows are Evershed flows. And that flux tubes are flux tubes.
Seriously, get a clue. Now back up your lies with a reference to where Tusenfem, or anybody else with a clue, has invoked Birkeland currents at comets. Or in the solar wind. You can't. Stop making **** up.
 
Steve said:
The title of this thread is "Electric universe theories here". It was started in 2009. No one has yet, in almost 14 years, provided an electric universe theory here. Requests to provide any such theory are met with resounding silence. All the (rather few) proponents of an electric universe have done is nibble around the edges of actual current scientific theories looking futilely for some sort of minor gotcha to stroke their own feeble egos.

Kudos to the actual scientists here who refuse to allow the inane ramblings of supposed electric universe proponents to go unchallenged. You keep me coming back to read actual science.
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And now the mainstream are catching up...exciting times!

You up to speed on nested Birkeland currents? New to the mainstream.
 
jonesdave116 said:
I've already explained it to you umpteen times. Learn to read. Borovsky et al also explain it. Do you never read what you post? Rhetorical.

In exospheric models, the electrons more easily escape the Sun from thermal acceleration than do ions, which feel the Sun's gravity more than the much less massive electrons, yes?( Sigh, how many times?)
So, we cannot have a solar wind composed entirely of electrons, can we? Alfven told us why that is impossible. So, as the electrons and ions attempt to separate, an electric field sets up which accelerates the ions and retards the electrons, ensuring that as many of both leave as stay. It is called 'quasi-neutrality'.
And I know that I said PP was bloody complicated, but that bit is hardly rocket science!
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OK,let me put this in more technical terms from an actual paper, by actual plasma physicists describing it;

The Sunward Electron Deficit: A Telltale Sign of the Sun’s Electric Potential
Halekas, J. L. et al (2021)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ac096e/pdf

Halekas said:
Since the prediction and subsequent discovery of thesolar wind over 60 years ago (Parker 1958; Gringauz et al. 1960; Neugebauer & Snyder 1962), the scientific community has considered a wide range of theories for its acceleration. Many of these, including the original hydrodynamic Parker model (Parker 1965) and a broad class of “exospheric” models (Jockers 1970; Lemaire & Scherer 1971, 1973; Pierrard & Lemaire 1996; Maksimovic et al. 1997; Zouganelis et al. 2004), directly involve the electron pressure gradient and/or the associated electric field. Even for solar wind models that primarily rely on other acceleration mechanisms (e.g., waves), a significant interplanetary electric field still naturally arises as a consequence of the Sun’s gravitational field and the presence of a hot plasma in the corona. Quite generally, given that mi >> me*, an electric field must exist to maintain quasi-neutrality in the presence of a gravitational field (Pannekoek 1922).
Moreover, global quasi-neutrality requires zero current along a flux tube, which implies an even stronger electric field (Lemaire & Scherer 1971), given Ti ≃ Te** and thus v the >> v thi***. From a more collective point of view, the electron pressure gradient between the hot corona and the cooler and less dense solar wind implies the presence of a significant ambipolar electric field. As Parker himself has shown (Parker 2010), in the limit of me -> 0, the exospheric model becomes equivalent to the hydrodynamic model. Given all these considerations, the existence of a significant electric potential drop between the corona and the outer heliosphere seems in little doubt.
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The little red * are my additions.

So;

* means that the mass of a proton is much greater than the mass of an electron. So, gravity affects ions >> more than electrons.

** means that the ion and electron temperatures are roughly comparable.

*** means therefore, that the thermal velocity of the electrons is much greater than that of the ions.

Hence why an electric field is needed to prevent all the ions staying at the Sun, and all the electrons leaving it. That would not only create an enormous negative space charge, but would cause the Sun to charge up to the opposite sign, and promptly explode due to Coulomb repulson. Which obviously doesn't happen.

Bolding is also mine. Some Birkeland current that, eh? :)
 
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Given all these considerations, the existence of a significant electric potential drop between the corona and the outer heliosphere seems in little doubt.
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My thoughts (and the Electric Universe) exactly.
 
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