Nick Terry
Illuminator
I do wonder where this ranks on the flat earth-o-meter, as in, whether a statement like this, or that sex is a spectrum, is just so flatly wrong that it ought to be permanently disqualifying from public life.
Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)
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I do wonder where this ranks on the flat earth-o-meter, as in, whether a statement like this, or that sex is a spectrum, is just so flatly wrong that it ought to be permanently disqualifying from public life.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I think it's a lot more wrong than "sex is a spectrum" unless (in addition to never having done an Ancestry or 23-and-me test) she has never had a period. Because while it's possible for a female person never to have a period (various abnormalities can do this), every person who ever had a period is female. Period.
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
And... I'm still fascinated that these colours have been reversed over time.
i.e. Historically female children should never be dressed in 'hot' colours like red or pink, because it will make them act like males...
i.e. it used to be pink for boys and blue for girls.
Rolfe
Adult human female
And when I was born my mother put a blue bonnet on me because someone had given it to her as a present. I still didn't turn into a boy.
And the word "girl" once denoted an adolescent boy.
And the word "girl" once denoted an adolescent boy.
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Yes, well kinda...
Up until the 1400's girl just meant 'child',
to specify the sex one would refer to knave girls (for boys) and gay girls (for girls) .
Rolfe
Adult human female
Thank you for the clarification!
Rolfe
Adult human female
Someone on Twitter has just reminded everyone that Maggie Chapman has a degree in zoology!
p0lka
Illuminator
Sex is more of a spectrum as it's not binary, but it is a constant and can't be changed,
these politicians are following the votes and are scared to say something wrong, yet haven't bothered to keep up to date.
It's gender that's the thing you can change like clothes, not sex. These politicians aren't keeping up.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Sex the most binary thing there is. Show me the third gamete and we can talk.
Gender is a meaningless load of codswallop, anything from regressive sexist stereotypes to "look at my unique personality". Not interested in it.
Gender is a meaningless load of codswallop, anything from regressive sexist stereotypes to "look at my unique personality". Not interested in it.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Your midnight check-in on the petition reports 70,799 signatures, so 611 new signatures today, well up on yesterday. I think all the talk about WM calling S35 on the new act may have boosted the numbers.
The new magic number is 310.6.
The Bradford petition was somewhere about 78.5K at the same time, so it has really zoomed ahead. When I first noticed it this morning it was still under 30K. I wonder why it suddenly took off on a Monday? Whatever these imams are using to recruit signatures, I want some. (In fact if someone could explain to them the reasoning for the EA petition, and indeed for the petition to repeal the EA, I think they might get on board. Calling Bradford-based terfs to action here!)
The new magic number is 310.6.
The Bradford petition was somewhere about 78.5K at the same time, so it has really zoomed ahead. When I first noticed it this morning it was still under 30K. I wonder why it suddenly took off on a Monday? Whatever these imams are using to recruit signatures, I want some. (In fact if someone could explain to them the reasoning for the EA petition, and indeed for the petition to repeal the EA, I think they might get on board. Calling Bradford-based terfs to action here!)
I just watched the TV series of JK Rawling’s “Troubled Blood”. Remember the frenzy of her denigration of transwomen? Leading to foul death threats etc etc. Well it’s worth watching to put the whole thing in context. It is a HBO show, well produced and acted and much of it filmed in breathtaking villages in Cornwall.
A very minor part of the long story was conjecture that a suspect murderer was a man disguised in a dress (nothing in the book about the suspect being trans) but in reality - I’m putting this in spoilers in case anyone wants to watch
Jeez, when TRAs get something wrong, they do it spectacularly. Gave me a laugh though.
A very minor part of the long story was conjecture that a suspect murderer was a man disguised in a dress (nothing in the book about the suspect being trans) but in reality - I’m putting this in spoilers in case anyone wants to watch
Jeez, when TRAs get something wrong, they do it spectacularly. Gave me a laugh though.
Nick Terry
Illuminator
The EA petition was up to 70,939 at 8.51am, so has already met most of the daily target (+240). Presumably yesterday's news has stimulated this, although because the UK govt says it's going to block the Scottish gender recognition bill, I would not expect a surge to rival the one in the week before Christmas when it originally passed in Holyrood.
The Bradford petition will pass the 100K threshold later today at current rates (it's passed 88K and is currently at 2,700 signatures/hour).
Rolfe
Adult human female
Yes, it's a bit of a paradox. The absolute urgency to get clarity that sex in the EA really means sex and not feelz was sparked by the Scottish bill. If that's not going to get royal assent then that urgency doesn't apply. But really, the need for clarity is still there.
It's a very clever petition. Others on the petition site fall into one of two categories - either the petitioners are pushing at an open door and they'll get what they want, which is often telegraphed in the wording of the initial response, or else they're going to get a very perfunctory hearing followed by the brush-off. (I suspect the Bradford petition is in the latter category.) This one has been drawn up by a clever lawyer (Maya Forstater) and puts the government neatly into a cleft stick. Hence the continuing absence of an initial response, one suspects.
There is clearly ambiguity in the wording of the EA, at least now. It's only 13 years old, but I think when it was drafted nobody even imagined that it wasn't clear that it meant actual physical sex and not feelz. However the TRAs have decided it means feelz and Stonewall and others have beenbrainwashing educating organisations and public bodies that it means feelz for several years now. They can't side-step this by saying no, it's perfectly clear. They're going to have to jump one way or the other.
The Bradford petition is over 98K now and still going like a train. It's going to get there even before the Dangerous Dogs Act one, which is nearly there and going quite strongly. (ETA: It got there about ten past twelve - I was hanging on to speak to my bank and saw it go over the 100K. I have to say the organisation to do that in two days is impressive. I'm sure it's imams - the concentration of signatures on the map fots well with Moslem communities. The Dangerous Dogs one will take a few more days I think.)
It's a very clever petition. Others on the petition site fall into one of two categories - either the petitioners are pushing at an open door and they'll get what they want, which is often telegraphed in the wording of the initial response, or else they're going to get a very perfunctory hearing followed by the brush-off. (I suspect the Bradford petition is in the latter category.) This one has been drawn up by a clever lawyer (Maya Forstater) and puts the government neatly into a cleft stick. Hence the continuing absence of an initial response, one suspects.
There is clearly ambiguity in the wording of the EA, at least now. It's only 13 years old, but I think when it was drafted nobody even imagined that it wasn't clear that it meant actual physical sex and not feelz. However the TRAs have decided it means feelz and Stonewall and others have been
The Bradford petition is over 98K now and still going like a train. It's going to get there even before the Dangerous Dogs Act one, which is nearly there and going quite strongly. (ETA: It got there about ten past twelve - I was hanging on to speak to my bank and saw it go over the 100K. I have to say the organisation to do that in two days is impressive. I'm sure it's imams - the concentration of signatures on the map fots well with Moslem communities. The Dangerous Dogs one will take a few more days I think.)
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Where is this? Do you have a source?
Nick Terry
Illuminator
The EA petition has since added another 300 signatures, so while the 'urgency' might not be there, the news has given this more momentum. It's up +453 on midnight, well over your target for the day, and there's still the late afternoon and all evening to go.
The Bradford petition is now at 113.3K, current rate about 2,600 signatures/hour. So Parliament will have to debate this, even if it's at 2am with three Tory MPs and a guide dog present.
Where the Bradford petition is helpful is it underscores the concerns of other groups who have protected characteristics under the EA - i.e. religion. These have been raised repeatedly in debates about single-sex spaces, but concerns about the beliefs of Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women seem to be dismissed or downplayed by supporters of self-ID.
The Bradford petition is now at 113.3K, current rate about 2,600 signatures/hour. So Parliament will have to debate this, even if it's at 2am with three Tory MPs and a guide dog present.
Where the Bradford petition is helpful is it underscores the concerns of other groups who have protected characteristics under the EA - i.e. religion. These have been raised repeatedly in debates about single-sex spaces, but concerns about the beliefs of Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women seem to be dismissed or downplayed by supporters of self-ID.
Sex is binary, but the phenotypical expression of sexually linked traits may be on a sort of spectrum. There is a difference.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Oh God, I didn't save it. I really needed eye-bleach. It was from actual teaching material being used in Scotland. It was encouraging children to experiment with anal sex, without any explanation that girls and women often find it painful and not at all pleasurable (or why), or that it is absolutely OK to say no if you don't want to, and not at all OK for a boy to insist.
It's not that recent. I think it was in relation to that public meeting that was filmed where John Swinney was trying to defend this stuff and parents were up in arms. So pre-coronavirus. Since then there have been efforts to get the material out of the public eye, on the grounds of protecting the commercial confidentiality of the firms the schools pay to produce the material. Of course these providers are activist groups.
Rolfe
Adult human female
The Bradford petition is poorly worded and poorly thought through and open to accusations of being homophobic. Nevertheless the premature sexualisation of young children and the over-sexualisation of adolescents by schools is a serious issue and it's not only religious groups who are concerned. This is an issue irrespective of whether trans indoctrination is included.
I'm glad to see the petition doing well because, as you say, it is another reminder to the government that there is widespread public concern about all this from a number of different groups in society. I'm also in awe of the organisational efficiency that can get people signing up at that rate.
Nick Terry
Illuminator
Martin Kettle has a shockingly reasonable comment piece on the blocking of the Scottish bill:
Blocking Scotland’s gender bill is no anti-woke crusade. But it’s not a democratic outrage either
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-scotland-gender-recognition-bill-rishi-sunak
The UK government statement of reasons is also now up
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...tion-35-of-the-scotland-act-1998/html-version
It's very difficult to argue with the concerns and contradictions raised except by ignoring them, which was pretty much how the bill passed in Holyrood.
Blocking Scotland’s gender bill is no anti-woke crusade. But it’s not a democratic outrage either
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-scotland-gender-recognition-bill-rishi-sunak
The UK government statement of reasons is also now up
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...tion-35-of-the-scotland-act-1998/html-version
It's very difficult to argue with the concerns and contradictions raised except by ignoring them, which was pretty much how the bill passed in Holyrood.
Rolfe
Adult human female
If Nicola Sturgeon had her eye on the ball she was elected to play, she'd have passed a bill authorising an independence referendum and made that the issue where WM had to invoke S35. If she'd done that the entire independence movement would have been behind her and cries of "democratic outrage" would have had some legitimacy.
She either has no clue what she's doing, her only priority is to keep the job she has, or she's some sort of dastardly long-term sleeper who has been activated to wreck the SNP.
Maybe even all at once.
I think the mistake that article, and many commentaries from England, makes, is that the author assumes that Nicola Sturgeon actually wants independence and that in some way she is acting strategically in the hope of advancing that cause. This is entirely misguided. Nicola Sturgeon does not want independence. She has a very cushy job in a unique position where she will repeatedly be returned to power by independence supporters, and all she has to do is wave the odd carrot or two, and then kick everything into the long grass. She's been doing it very successfully for eight years and it's still working. Independence supporters who have seen through her aren't going to vote for unionist parties and she has systematically scuppered any alternative independence movement, so she's sitting pretty. Missing £600,000 and all.
Just how she became so captured by the woke I have no idea, but she is, and she has captured half the SNP in her turn. Including Philippa Whitford, God help us. The other half may not be captured but they know where their seats on the gravy train come from. So we are where we are. And I'm going to get on with my book on the Ring.
She either has no clue what she's doing, her only priority is to keep the job she has, or she's some sort of dastardly long-term sleeper who has been activated to wreck the SNP.
Maybe even all at once.
I think the mistake that article, and many commentaries from England, makes, is that the author assumes that Nicola Sturgeon actually wants independence and that in some way she is acting strategically in the hope of advancing that cause. This is entirely misguided. Nicola Sturgeon does not want independence. She has a very cushy job in a unique position where she will repeatedly be returned to power by independence supporters, and all she has to do is wave the odd carrot or two, and then kick everything into the long grass. She's been doing it very successfully for eight years and it's still working. Independence supporters who have seen through her aren't going to vote for unionist parties and she has systematically scuppered any alternative independence movement, so she's sitting pretty. Missing £600,000 and all.
Just how she became so captured by the woke I have no idea, but she is, and she has captured half the SNP in her turn. Including Philippa Whitford, God help us. The other half may not be captured but they know where their seats on the gravy train come from. So we are where we are. And I'm going to get on with my book on the Ring.
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