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Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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I note they don't mention that Professor Wintemute was one of the authors of the notorious "Yogakarta principles", which are simply a codified laundry list of trans-activist demands. At that point he was fully on board with the trans project and happy to recommend they should be given everything they want.

It was only later that he started to think about how these demands impacted on and indeed destroyed women's rights that he reconsidered. He now realises that the entire trans project is predicated on riding a coach and horses through women's rights to single-sex spaces and provisions, and is speaking up against it.

All credit to him. But it's shocking to realise how little anyone involved in this project considers women's rights - the issue isn't even on their radar. Women are just expected to budge over and put up with it.
 
“There was a feeling that transgender people have suffered and they are saying this is what is needed — the implications of no surgery and self-ID had not dawned on us back in 2006. So far as I remember nobody was thinking about males with intact genitals gaining access to women’s spaces.”

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/april-2021/the-trans-rights-that-trump-all/

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
I wish he had as much influence now he's talking sense as he did when he was a fervent lobbyist for the trans position.

Having listened to women and had his “eyes opened”, Wintemute has travelled so far from his original position that he now wonders whether the GRA and prior laws in Europe should have been passed. “The arguments made at that time were that people had done everything they could to appear to be of the opposite sex, but the fact that their appearance did not match their official documents put them at risk of violence, harassment, or discrimination,” he says.

Instead of changing the person’s legal sex, the law could have simply sought to protect people from harm triggered by the difference between their legal sex and their appearance on the basis of their presentation, he suggests. “This would remove much of the current conflict, as it would affirm trans people’s birth sex as their legal sex, while ensuring their protection from discrimination based on gender non-conforming appearance or behaviour.”
 
I wish he had as much influence now he's talking sense as he did when he was a fervent lobbyist for the trans position.

"A lie travels round the world while the truth is still lacing its shoes."

There seems to be a *lot* of activism and sensationalism that follows this principle. Huge hype and headlines when the original idea is promoted, little or no attention when the original idea turns out to have flaws and need re-working.
 
OT, but I remember years ago on the forum we had a discussion about a BBC item on "The Beast of Helensburgh", which was all hyped up to suggest that a black panther was stalking the railway line at that town. (You could see from the film it was a black Felis domesticus, and not even an especially big one at that.)

Repeated item on the BBC news. Spots on several national newspapers.

If you wanted to find out what happened next, it was only in the small-circulation Helensburgh Advertiser. The cat was identified as one "Puss-puss", the pet of a little girl who lived near the railway line. Locals had identified the cat immediately. But the BBC and the national newspapers never followed it up at all.
 
Ah well, back to watching glinner piss all over the last smouldering remains of his reputation, career, relationships and mental health, and his inevitable re-banning from twitter.
I don't think gendercrits should be judged based on Linehan's behavior any more than trans rights advocates should be judged based on the activism of folks like Merager & Yaniv. That said, since you keep bringing him up, I've got a question for anyone who cares to answer:

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1613516753098706945

Do you think he's making a good point here, or is this sort of word policing unnecessary?
 
If you'd asked me a couple years ago, I would have said probably not. Today? Absolutely. "Gender assigned at birth" is a now-anachronistic synonym for "sex observed at birth". Anachronistic because TRAs want to play Orwellian games with language to further their anti-social agenda. So let's drop the old-timey synonym, and normalize what actually happens: Sex is observed at birth, and duly recorded along with the newborn's other biological facts.
 
If you'd asked me a couple years ago, I would have said probably not. Today? Absolutely. "Gender assigned at birth" is a now-anachronistic synonym for "sex observed at birth". Anachronistic because TRAs want to play Orwellian games with language to further their anti-social agenda. So let's drop the old-timey synonym, and normalize what actually happens: Sex is observed at birth, and duly recorded along with the newborn's other biological facts.

The highlighted is correct. At least in this context, sex and gender are no longer synonyms.

For completeness, you could add: "Due to the high correlation between gender and sex, gender is assumed from sex. Gender is not observable at birth."
 
The highlighted is correct. At least in this context, sex and gender are no longer synonyms.
The tweet was about sex "assigned at birth," rather than gender. The only sense in which gender is assigned to newborns is that some get light blue hats and the others get pastel pink.

Personally, I'm on the fence this time. If someone says "sex observed at birth" I know what they mean, if they say "sex assigned at birth," I know what they mean. I'm inclined to "birth sex" myself. Linehan and the intersectional social justice activists likely agree that this is a battle worth fighting, but I remain skeptical.
 
The tweet was about sex "assigned at birth," rather than gender. The only sense in which gender is assigned to newborns is that some get light blue hats and the others get pastel pink.

Personally, I'm on the fence this time. If someone says "sex observed at birth" I know what they mean, if they say "sex assigned at birth," I know what they mean. I'm inclined to "birth sex" myself. Linehan and the intersectional social justice activists likely agree that this is a battle worth fighting, but I remain skeptical.

Really, I don't care a whole lot. I know what people mean, and arguing about terminology seems like a distraction from the real issues. But the word "assigned" grates on me in this context. Perhaps overly so.
 
The tweet was about sex "assigned at birth," rather than gender. The only sense in which gender is assigned to newborns is that some get light blue hats and the others get pastel pink.

Personally, I'm on the fence this time. If someone says "sex observed at birth" I know what they mean, if they say "sex assigned at birth," I know what they mean. I'm inclined to "birth sex" myself. Linehan and the intersectional social justice activists likely agree that this is a battle worth fighting, but I remain skeptical.

Second response to the same post.

I know what the post was about. What theprestige posted (sex observed at birth) is accurate. I'm just pointing out that people usually assume gender from sex. Then they paint the nursery, choose names, and buy clothes based on that assumption.

Sounds terrible, but 99 percent of the time that assumption is correct, even if there is no rational reasons that boys get blue and girls get pink etc. Basically, taking sex and extrapolating personality and preferences.
 
Really, I don't care a whole lot. I know what people mean, and arguing about terminology seems like a distraction from the real issues. But the word "assigned" grates on me in this context. Perhaps overly so.
Some while back, Tumblr activists tried to take linguistic shift even further, imputing coercion to the process.
 
Ah no, you misunderstood. I just stopped by to remind you that Linehan - whom you were demonstrably happy to see back on Twitter - is living up to form as an out-and-out nutjob who (from the minute he was allowed back on twitter) has resumed obsessively tweeting anti-trans screeds at a rate of well over 18 hours per day every day*, and who has lost his wife, his family, his home, almost all of his friends & (former) colleagues and his career in the process. I was wondering what it was about him you admire so much, and what your admiration of him says about you. That's all.
Yes, I understood. You consistently resort to personal attacks, misrepresentations, smears, guilt by association, and applauding silencing and punishment (eg. firing, ostracism) of people you disagree with. There was once a time when most people who regarded themselves as sceptics seemed to understand that people do this because they are intolerant of dissent and cannot advance their position by debate because they have no argument (e.g. scientologists). This was before a large chunk of the sceptic movement abandoned scientific scepticism for ideological fundamentalism and apparently decided that scientologists are great role models and champions of free speech.

Oh and BTW, please could you kindly inform me what evidence there is that homosexuality is a valid condition and not a mental health disorder

Human characteristics do not divide into ‘disorders’ or ‘valid conditions’. If somebody advocates that a condition should be classified as a disorder, the accepted requirements today are that it causes clinically significant distress, functional impairment and/or harm to others, and therefore may require diagnosis, treatment/management, or accommodation. Accordingly, there is no reason for homosexuality to be classified as a disorder. It was classified as such because it was socially stigmatized and illegal, and that was considered sufficient at the time the first DSM was published in the 1950s.
The distress requirement was added to the diagnostic criteria for gender identity disorder in 1987, 26 years before it was renamed gender dysphoria in DSM-5 and 'trans identity' without dysphoria has not been considered a disorder for about 35 years and has never been illegal.
You're welcome.

(I am perhaps over-assuming that you actually don't consider homosexual people to be mentally ill on account of their homosexuality.... or I dunno, maybe your view on the validity of homosexuality is in line with your view on the validity of transgender identity?).
'Validity of homosexuality’ and ‘validity of transgender identity’ are both equally meaningless expressions, apart from the fact that ‘homosexuality’ has a clear, non-ideological and non-circular definition and objective markers, whereas ‘transgender identity’ does not.

And when you answer that question, go ahead and replace "homosexuality" with "transgender identity". The penny might drop.
Gender:
Everyone has an immutable sex (male or female). ‘Man’ is the traditional term for adult human male and ‘woman’ for adult human female. Society has traditionally had gender expectations based on sex such as men being masculine and women being feminine, or men and women having stereotypical preferences in gender expression and social roles. Some males and females do not identify with the gender expectations associated with their sex, for example, feminine men and masculine women. If all that is required to be a woman is to be female, a woman can reject gender expectations and still be a woman (and likewise for men). If ‘woman’ is redefined to mean somebody who identifies with a gender, this implies that females who are gender nonconforming are not women (and likewise for GNC men). We should not rename the terms ‘man/woman’ and ‘boy/girl’ to refer to identification with a 'gender' because this is sexist and regressive. We should especially not encourage children to think that whether they are a boy or girl is based on how they feel rather than biology, encouraging a boy who feels different from other boys because he is gender non-conforming thinking he must be a girl and have the ‘wrong body’ (and likewise for girls). Instead, we should encourage them to think that it’s ok to be gender non-conforming and this does not conflict with their sex.

Sexual orientation:
Everyone has an immutable sex (male or female). ‘Man’ is the traditional term for adult human male and ‘woman’ for adult human female. Society has traditionally had gender sexual orientation expectations based on sex such as men being masculine gynephilic and women being feminine androphilic, or men and women having stereotypical preferences in gender expression and social roles expression of sexuality and attraction to the opposite sex. Some males and females do not identify with the gender sexual orientation expectations associated with their sex, for example, feminine androphilic men and masculine gynephilic women. If all that is required to be a woman is to be female, a woman can reject gender sexual orientation expectations and still be a woman (and likewise for men). If ‘woman’ is redefined to mean somebody who identifies with a gender is androphilic, this implies that females who are gender nonconforming lesbians are not women (and likewise for gay men). We should not rename the terms ‘man/woman’ and ‘boy/girl’ to refer to identification with a 'gender' identification of an expected sexual orientation because this is sexist homophobic and regressive. We should especially not encourage children to think that whether they are a boy or girl is based on how they feel rather than biology, encouraging a boy who feels different from other boys because he is gender non-conforming will be gay in adulthood thinking he must be a girl and have the ‘wrong body’ (and likewise for girls). Instead, we should encourage them to think that it’s ok to be gender non-conforming gay and this does not conflict with their sex.

Nope, don't see the problem.
 
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Really, I don't care a whole lot. I know what people mean, and arguing about terminology seems like a distraction from the real issues. But the word "assigned" grates on me in this context. Perhaps overly so.

Well when the terminology IS THE ONLY ISSUE we don't really have anywhere else to go here.

This discussion has NEVER been anything but "Do I have five fingers or four fingers in a thumb?"

Everyone knows what everyone means, the discussion is about who's terminology we use.
 
The tweet was about sex "assigned at birth," rather than gender. The only sense in which gender is assigned to newborns is that some get light blue hats and the others get pastel pink.

Personally, I'm on the fence this time. If someone says "sex observed at birth" I know what they mean, if they say "sex assigned at birth," I know what they mean. I'm inclined to "birth sex" myself. Linehan and the intersectional social justice activists likely agree that this is a battle worth fighting, but I remain skeptical.

"Birth sex" is just "sex" with extra syllables. The binary condition is set at conception, and immutable thereafter. "Birth sex" is no more distinctive than "first trimester sex" or "fifty-first-birthday sex". Not even if the fifty one year-old has had puberty blockers, lifelong hormone treatments, and the best most extensive plastic surgery known to man, will their sex have changed one iota from what it was when gamete first met gamete.
 
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