DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt

[Warp12]

When pointing out bad arguments, you have to reference the bad argument itself.

Again, this is not meant for Warp.

But the post of mine that you quoted made no mention of a sanctuary city. Just that Dems had no place in whining about this. I guess you missed that part. Probably didn't read back to get context. Whatever.

 

[arayder]

They are endorsing non-cooperation with federal immigration authorities. So, no room to complain about the actions of DeSantis.

It seems to have escaped you that the people your boy DeSantis is using as part of a cheap stunt are in reality human beings with God given rights.

Clearly, to you, their callus abuse is okay because it's just politics.

 

[Stacyhs]

Wrong. It exposes that the legal avenues of enforcement were obviously impotent. As they may well be in this case.

Not for several years, even decades. As the article states:

The most egregious violators simply closed the public schools. In response to a May 1, 1959 order to integrate its schools, officials in Prince Edward County, Virginia closed its entire public school system instead. The entire public school system remained closed for the next five years.
In September 1958 as schools in Norfolk, Charlottesville, and Warren County were on the verge of integration via court order, they were closed by state officials. Although the Virginia Supreme Court overturned the school-closure law, the General Assembly made school attendance optional.

In the face of this fierce and ongoing resistance, LDF sued hundreds of school districts across the country to vindicate the promise of Brown. It was not until LDF’s later victories in Green v. County School Board (1968) and Swann v. Charlotte-Mecklenburg (1971) that the Supreme Court issued mandates that segregation be dismantled “root and branch.”

The point was your philosophy of "if the voters support it, it's ok despite its illegality", not whether "the legal avenues of enforcement were impotent" or not. But....whoosh....right over your head.

Everyone is so up in arms over this, as I say let's see the legal action and the results. That will be the determiner. My guess? No legal action of consequence.

Yeah, people ...or at least some people...do tend to get upset when human beings are used as pawns in order to further a politician's personal political aspirations. But you do you.

 

[Stacyhs]

It seems to have escaped you that the people your boy DeSantis is using as part of a cheap stunt are in reality human beings with God given rights.

Clearly, to you, their callus abuse is okay because it's just politics.

As long as the voters support it and they can get away with it...illegal or not...it's just hunky-dory according to Warp. It only matters if it's prosecuted successfully. That kind of thinking explains so much.

 

[smartcooky]

As long as the voters support it and they can get away with it...illegal or not...it's just hunky-dory according to Warp. It only matters if it's prosecuted successfully. That kind of thinking explains so much.

Well, that is how a certain little Austrian corporal became the dictator of a country, and the architect of the greatest genocide in the history of human civilization isn't it, so I can see why Warp is perfectly OK with that.

After all, Republicans judge themselves how much they can hurt mud-people, race-traitors, women and their other their political enemies to a far greater degree than how much they do to better the lives of their own people.

 

[bruto]

As long as the voters support it, sure. Why not?

How about because it is wrong? How does it come about that those politicians who scream loudest against hints of moral relativism find it so easy to abandon every trace of simple decency in favor of shenanigans like this?

And is there not a point at which you find it difficult to maintain your position that the ends justify the means?

 

[Venom]

Warp12, there's a difference between going through proper procedures to get migrants to where people care about them and cynical political ploy like this to send a message. DeSantis and co thought (or pandering to their dumbass MAGAt fans who do) would reject them so they can play the hypocrisy game.

This nonsense is playing to the "well how about you take in refugees" at home, like that's an argument against institutional changes to accomodate them.

 

[Stacyhs]

How about because it is wrong? How does it come about that those politicians who scream loudest against hints of moral relativism find it so easy to abandon every trace of simple decency in favor of shenanigans like this?

And is there not a point at which you find it difficult to maintain your position that the ends justify the means?

For Warp, what Trump has done to this country...the Big Lie undermining our election integrity, the Jan. 6 insurrection, taking documents (including top secret) that could jeopardize our national security and the lives of operatives... is just fine as long as he's never prosecuted and convicted.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Seems like good optics so far. The progressive one percenters on the island aren't really doing their faction any favors in all this.

It's almost like any American who actually wants more illegal immigrants only really wants them somewhere else.

And that…is why you fail.

 

[Stout]

Warp12, there's a difference between going through proper procedures to get migrants to where people care about them and cynical political ploy like this to send a message. DeSantis and co thought (or pandering to their dumbass MAGAt fans who do) would reject them so they can play the hypocrisy game.

This appears to be the new normal as a way to get migrants to these sanctuary cities unfortunately the sanctuary cities are having difficulties dealing with the influx. The MV thing was just a way to get this into the news big time.

Migrant Busing Brings the Border Crisis to Sanctuary Cities

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Boy, that moral compass thing is for the birds. So much easier to subjugate women, treat immigrants like chattel, wantonly destroy the environment, coddle and encourage nazis and fascists, lionize proven grifters, and dry hump every conspiracy theory that catches your fancy.

I mean it's one thing to have a broken compass, maybe that could be fixed. But to willfully throw the thing down the deepest hole you can find and pile manure over top just in case anyone looks down... that's next level stuff.

But…but Jesus!

 

[smartcooky]

The more I think about this, the more I am OK with it.

OK, so can we have some clarification of what you are OK with...

Yes or No: Are you OK with the Florida Government directly lying to them about where they were being sent to and what was waiting for them at their destination?

Yes or No: Are you OK with the Florida Government giving them documentation with deliberately misleading instructions?

Yes or no: Are you OK with the DHS intentionally inserting false entries on their documentation, listing their addresses as randomly chosen homeless shelters all over the USA?

Yes or no: Are you OK with the Florida Government deliberately giving them the wrong agency with which to update their addresses?

Yes or No: Are you OK with the Florida Government arranging for them to have court appearances all over the country that they could not possibly have any way to get to.

These are simple questions with yes or no answers - they have no need of elaboration - either you are OK with these things or you are not. You earn the right to elaborate only after you have answered yes or no.

 

[Warp12]

Yes or no: Are you OK with the Florida Government intentionally inserting false entries on their documentation, listing their addresses as randomly chosen homeless shelters all over the USA?

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the claim is that DHS did the above.

Yes or no: Are you OK with the Florida Government deliberately giving them the wrong e are simple questions with yes or no answers - they have no need of elaboration - either you are OK with these things or you are not. You earn the right to elaborate only after you have answered yes or no.

Basically, as soon as I see the above highlighted, I know I'm not bothering to answer you. The "internet interrogator" method of debate is amusing, though.

 

[phiwum]

MV certainly beats languishing on the streets of San Antonio. We're told the migrants were given phones with US numbers so obviously those were lacking. Phones are cheap and necessary and if the migrants weren't able to afford those then their situation must have indeed been dire. MV residents also raised $175k for the migrants (at press time) which, when distributed equitably among the migrants would allow them to relocate to pretty much anywhere in the country they chose. This is what I meant by "hitting the jackpot".

The missing court appearances issue doesn't make any sense. The migrants knew they had court appearances yet chose to get on a presumably one way flight to a sanctuary location knowing full well that those court appearances would be missed. Maybe there's something wonky in the reporting here.

You may pretend all you wish, but this scheme had no good intentions at heart. There are a million places which would have been better prepared to deal with migrants than Martha's Vineyard. That the people of the Vineyard reacted well doesn't wash the stench off of DeSantis, who flew migrants from Texas to Florida and then the Vineyard just for the sake of publicity.

As far as missed court dates go, the fact is that the migrants were likely unclear on how the process works. They were taken advantage of. It's really as simple as that.

 

[phiwum]

Don't recall Martha's Vineyard being any "sanctuary city"...

Massachusetts is a "sanctuary state" due to a state Supreme Court ruling.

 

[phiwum]

He sent them to Martha's Vineyard because that is where Kamala Harris lives, not because it's a sanctuary city, which it's not.

As I told Norman, Martha's Vineyard is located in a sanctuary state.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the claim is that DHS did the above.

OK, fixed that, but regardless of whoever did it, are you OK with it: Yes or no

Basically, as soon as I see the above highlighted, I know I'm not bothering to answer you. The "internet interrogator" method of debate is amusing, though.

Translation: You're afraid to justify your position.

If you won't answer a simple, non-loaded, yes or no question as to what you agree with then it becomes clear and obvious that you know you are standing on shaky ground.

 

[smartcooky]

Massachusetts is a "sanctuary state" due to a state Supreme Court ruling.

As I told Norman, Martha's Vineyard is located in a sanctuary state.

Moot!

Whether or not Massachusetts is a sanctuatry state is completely irrelevant. These are not illegal immigrants, they are asylum seekers awaiting a court decision on their status

 

[Warp12]

Well, whoever did it, are you OK with it: Yes or no

I would suggest you get your facts in order before proclaiming falsehoods. Look at the source material, and prior posts. Then you won't be asking redundant questions. I've more than answered the questions you posed. In fact, I have made numerous comments on the DHS issue, which I consider more outrageous than what DeSantis has done. The involvement of a federal agency in document falsification is pretty curious.

 

[arayder]

I would suggest you get your facts in order before proclaiming falsehoods. Look at the source material, and prior posts. Then you won't be asking redundant questions. I've more than answered the questions you posed. In fact, I have made numerous comments on the DHS issue, which I consider more outrageous than what DeSantis has done. The involvement of a federal agency in document falsification is pretty curious.

We can all see your round about way of not answering a plain and simple straightforward question.