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DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt

Norman Alexander said:
This is the soft version of "Yeah, you gonna make me?"

The subsequent paragraph says it is not OFFICIALLY, LEGALLY a sanctuary state, despite various efforts to make it so. So when it comes down to legalities, it is not. Abbott and DeSantis saying so does not make it so.
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No, that's not what it means.

You're right that MA never passed a law outlawing police arrests of illegal immigrants for their status. But the Court ruled that is the law of the land. So, since that's what folks mean when they use the term "sanctuary", MA is a sanctuary state.

The notion that there is an OFFICIAL or LEGAL sense of "sanctuary city/state" is just silly.

Perhaps you're just misunderstanding the second paragraph you quoted.

But for years, advocates have tried to get a bill that would codify sanctuary status in Massachusetts, and it hasn't passed, despite Democrats, who tend to support sanctuary status more than Republicans, controlling the Legislature.
That's not saying they're trying to make sanctuary status "official" or "legal". It's just saying that they'd like to put it in the state legal code. For one thing, that makes it less likely to disappear if the state Supreme Court changes its mind. For another, it's getting the message out that this is what the state (legislature) wants, that it's not just something that happened to them in the courts, but that they support it.

The second paragraph doesn't say a damned thing about "OFFICIAL" or "LEGAL".
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Note to moderators: all this bickering about whether Mass is a "sanctuary state" is irrelevant to the topic, since none of the immigrants sent to Martha's Vineyard were illegal immigrants. It's merely a case of poisoning the well.
 
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Many migrants who cross into the United States via the Southwest border are immediately expelled to Mexico or other countries under a COVID-19 pandemic policy. But some nationalities, including Venezuelans, cannot be expelled because Mexico will not accept them and many seek to apply for U.S. asylum.
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DeSantis defends Martha's Vineyard migrant flights, suggests more to come
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/te...-vineyard-amid-political-standoff-2022-09-16/


So basically many of those Venezuelans transported to Martha's Vineyard likely arrived as illegals. But since Mexico doesn't want them, we let them apply for asylum? They can't be expelled, unlike others. Pathetic.

And here people want to crow that they aren't illegals. Well, they should be.
 
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It was a crass political stunt designed to appeal the racist, xenophobic rubes - and it's obviously worked as intended.
 
It was a crass political stunt designed to energize DeSantis' base. And it obviously worked. Anti-immigration has always been a hot-button issue and a staple of the right including in Europe. But I've noticed a basic contradiction in DeSantis' rhetoric. DeSantis "blames" President Biden for not doing enough to stop illegal immigration at a time when a record number of arrests have been made on the US-Mexican border.
Ron DeSantis blamed Democratic President Joe Biden for what he portrayed as a failure to stop migrants from crossing the U.S.-Mexico border, as a record 1.8 million have been arrested this fiscal year. Reuters news link
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Meanwhile, many people find the whole thing to be crazy. A state government 'rounding up' people in another state? Then sending them to a third state? This is America?
The legal basis for the Florida government to round up migrants in a different state remained unclear. U.S. government attorneys are exploring possible litigation around the governors' efforts, a Biden administration official told Reuters.
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What if the governor of Connecticut 'rounded up' the asylum-seekers in Massachusetts and sent them back to Texas? Would that...

Oh wait, I forgot.

Decent people don't do things like that.
 
pgwenthold said:
Note to moderators: all this bickering about whether Mass is a "sanctuary state" is irrelevant to the topic, since none of the immigrants sent to Martha's Vineyard were illegal immigrants. It's merely a case of poisoning the well.
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One reason it's relevant is that DeSantis himself (or at least his press secretary) said that he aimed to send immigrants to sanctuary cities/states.

"Here are all the Florida house reps and senators who voted for this year’s budget, including the funding for transporting illegal migrants out of Florida into sanctuary states. Almost every Dem voted for it. Now they’re calling a criminal for following through," Christina Pushaw tweeted.
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You're right that asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, but whether DeSantis actually sent the asylum seekers to a sanctuary locale is relevant (as is the fact that the migrants were transported to Florida before being transported out of Florida -- great use of FL taxpayer funds).

As far as poisoning the well goes, I don't see how. For one thing, poisoning the well has to do with dismissing an argument before it's heard, usually due to some form of ad hominem or genetic fallacy. And, in any case, whether the Vineyard is in a sanctuary state or not has little to do with whether DeSantis's action was reasonable, compassionate or otherwise justifiable. Perhaps the discussion is slightly off-topic, if that, but I don't see those who say MA is reasonably called a sanctuary state (including me) as defending what DeSantis did.

What DeSantis did is reprehensible from where I sit, but one can't complain that Martha's Vineyard doesn't fit his stated goal of moving migrants from Florida to a sanctuary state. Now, the "from Florida" bit on the other hand...
 
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newyorkguy said:
DeSantis "blames" President Biden for not doing enough to stop illegal immigration at a time when a record number of arrests have been made on the US-Mexican border.
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I noticed that too. But then the target audience of such theatrics isn't exactly known for its critical thinking skills. Not that that's a problem for people like DeSantis. Totalitarianism 101, first day of class, the lesson is that the sort of power any aspiring despot really desires - the sort of power that lets you do pretty much anything you want - needs the support of an army of angry morons who can be manipulated through their fears and bigotries. I think the most damaging aspect of the Trump presidency isn't his actual occupation of the office - it's the lessons he taught, however unknowingly, about how to potentially seize power. I think the Republican Party as it now is, has spent years looking at the kleptocracy in Russia with envy. The thought of someone more conniving and less impulsive using a playbook based on Trump's strategies is deeply concerning.
 
phiwum said:
What DeSantis did is reprehensible from where I sit, but one can't complain that Martha's Vineyard doesn't fit his stated goal of moving migrants from Florida to a sanctuary state. Now, the "from Florida" bit on the other hand...
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His "well, a lot of them come to Florida from Texas" was especially pathetic. So I guess the same logic would hold if he'd sent Venezuelans to Martha's Vineyard from Mexico.
 
Foster Zygote said:
His "well, a lot of them come to Florida from Texas" was especially pathetic. So I guess the same logic would hold if he'd sent Venezuelans to Martha's Vineyard from Mexico.
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Yeah, Florida taxpayers should be genuinely pissed that DeSantis spent money to transport migrants from Texas to Florida to Massachusetts. Even ignoring the truly shabby treatment of the migrants, some of whom may lose their court dates and perhaps their application, it's really a matter of spending taxpayer money for personal political gain.

But he couldn't have done this trick with asylum seekers who arrived in Florida, because such folks are usually Cuban and that wouldn't go over well with his voters. Or at least that's what one guest on NPR said, but I haven't the details of the program.
 
phiwum said:
But he couldn't have done this trick with asylum seekers who arrived in Florida, because such folks are usually Cuban and that wouldn't go over well with his voters. Or at least that's what one guest on NPR said, but I haven't the details of the program.
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Ah, yes. Now that makes sense.
 
phiwum said:
...the migrants were transported to Florida before being transported out of Florida -- great use of FL taxpayer funds...
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I wonder if there was some arcane legal reason for bringing the migrants to Florida from Texas while en route to Massachusetts. Or some statutory requirement. Or was it only so the Florida state employee or DeSantis staffer assigned to make a video record of the arrival in Martha's Vineyard could board the plane? It's also been widely reported:
DeSantis admitted that the state of Florida has not seen “any major movements of people into Florida.”
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DeSantis told a reporter in Orlando the people flown from Texas to Massachusetts "intended to come to Florida." But there's no evidence of that I don't think.

Great comment on Twitter:
Anyone remember the movie "The minority report"? They think you'll commit a crime some time in the future and then they arrest you for that future crime... DeSantis must have thought that was brilliant!
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Stellafane said:
I suspect DeSantis counted on the residents of Martha's Vineyard being all aghast at the poor minorities suddenly dropped into their privileged midst, thus confirming how liberals are all a bunch of hypocrites at heart. Only the good people of MV didn't get the script, and instead rallied around the victims of DeSantis's callous cruelty.

That's both the horror and the fatal flaw of DeSantis and his ilk, they actually believe deep down everyone thinks like them.
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Right now the cheerleaders for this aren't counting on it at all. They're just pretending it's so whether it's accurate or not. Plays well in the intended crowd.
 
Warp12 said:
So basically many of those Venezuelans transported to Martha's Vineyard likely arrived as illegals. But since Mexico doesn't want them, we let them apply for asylum? They can't be expelled, unlike others. Pathetic.

And here people want to crow that they aren't illegals. Well, they should be.
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Your xenophobia is on full display. The idea that you have to use twisted logic to pull it off shows just how willful your bigotry is.

Pathetic!
 
Foster Zygote said:
The thought of someone more conniving and less impulsive using a playbook based on Trump's strategies is deeply concerning.
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D is far more intelligent and realistic that Trump and yes HE might be far, far more dangerous to our Republic.
 
Warp12 said:
. . .I've already said that I am ok with what DeSantis did, as I see it as minor compared to what the Dems are endorsing with sanctuary states and cities.
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Some time ago when questioned you said people have a God given human right to immigrate and apply for asylum. But when some do just that you chortle in delight when DeSantis interrupts the application process by shipping them off to another state.

And your justification for this abrogation of a human right is that the Democrats did something you think is worse?

Talk about a race to the moral bottom.
 
theprestige said:
Seems like good optics so far. The progressive one percenters on the island aren't really doing their faction any favors in all this.

It's almost like any American who actually wants more illegal immigrants only really wants them somewhere else.
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This sentiment came and went pretty quick in this thread because it just couldn't stand up to the facts of what actually happened. However, I keep seeing it pop up on the other social media sources out there. Is there some justification for this that I'm just not seeing or is it just completely made up propaganda?
 
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