“Woke”

[Blue Mountain]

Is it just me, or do others here when they see the word “woke" to describe people or institutions see it as shorthand for “I don't like people telling me I shouldn't hate on blacks and treat women as sex objects”?

I view the “woke” criticism to be invalid, since to me it implies the person or institution being targeted has simply said “we want to take steps to ensure people feel welcome here instead of being marginalized based on attributes such as gender, gender identification, race, colour, creed, country of origin, or sexual orientation.”

I added “politically correct” as a tag because, in contrast to “woke,” I view it as inclusiveness gone wild, to the degree where it's used a cudgel to shut down discussion because some snowflake somewhere might be offended. Certainly having one's ideas being challenged can sting, but people should be encouraged to separate criticism of their ideas from criticism of their person.

I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of others on this.

 

[Rolfe]

It has become useful shorthand.

 

[Thermal]

"Woke" is a term for people who take their liberal virtue signalling to a comic extreme. They were not "Woke" to anything. It's a cheap act performed by cheap people.

A lawyer taking a pro bono case for a minority getting screwed is not "Woke". A college kid lecturing anyone they can find about pronoun usage while not doing a damn thing of consequence is "Woke"

 

[Warp12]

"Woke" is a term for people who take their liberal virtue signaling to a comic extreme.

That is the way I see it. Sometimes I think the real "woke" is being able to see through that routine. Which many can't do.

 

[Craig4]

I only hear the phrase from people who complain about "wokeness" because they feel constrained from being dicks.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I only hear the phrase from people who complain about "wokeness" because they feel constrained from being dicks.

I'm sure I've also heard it from people who are completely unrestrained at being dicks.

 

[eerok]

I despise racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry, but I dislike the term "woke", and decline to use it.

 

[JoeMorgue]

"Woke" is a stupid term on a linguistic level and just another of those weird, annoying, twee words that just popped up out of nowhere and got overused.

I also remember the ultra-brief "I believe in conspiracy theories" version of the term that got drowned out by the more common usage pretty much out of the gate.

Literally every single person I've ever seen actually bothered by it on any level beyond "the lowest possible level of measurable annoyance" has been a horrible person.

TLR. If you're annoyed by it fine, if you actually used "woke" as a criticism or insult, you're almost certainly horrible.

 

[Thermal]

IIRC, it was originally used by its sincere advocates. "Man, I'm woke now" which became such a laughing stock way of calling yourself "awakened to injustice" that it immediately became a slam.

 

[bruto]

"Woke" is a term for people who take their liberal virtue signalling to a comic extreme. They were not "Woke" to anything. It's a cheap act performed by cheap people.

A lawyer taking a pro bono case for a minority getting screwed is not "Woke". A college kid lecturing anyone they can find about pronoun usage while not doing a damn thing of consequence is "Woke"

I think that's what it might have meant originally but the right wing has captured the term and now it seems to apply to anything that even hints at social justice or equality or progressive values.

I tend to agree with Blue Mountain and Eerok on this, it's an ugly and misleading term best not used at all. Then again, I think many of those buzz words are best not used, since they imply far more than they started out to. Like "politically incorrect," "social justice warrior," "virtue signalling" and so on, they become shortcuts for accusations of hypocrisy and wrongness without the inconvenience of having to acknowledge the accusation.

 

[TragicMonkey]

"Woke" is a stupid term on a linguistic level and just another of those weird, annoying, twee words that just popped up out of nowhere

It's not from "nowhere", it came from a dialect of English sometimes called African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). It has since taken on additional baggage since crossing into other dialects of English. As a word and as a concept it probably does not deserve the level of hatred directed at it.

 

[eerok]

As a word and as a concept it probably does not deserve the level of hatred directed at it.

Yes, but hatred finds a way.

 

[Thermal]

I think that's what it might have meant originally but the right wing has captured the term and now it seems to apply to anything that even hints at social justice or equality or progressive values.

I tend to agree with Blue Mountain and Eerok on this, it's an ugly and misleading term best not used at all. Then again, I think many of those buzz words are best not used, since they imply far more than they started out to. Like "politically incorrect," "social justice warrior," "virtue signalling" and so on, they become shortcuts for accusations of hypocrisy and wrongness without the inconvenience of having to acknowledge the accusation.

I'm not entirely hip to its popular current use, so I'll take your word for it. I hear it used semi seriously by my college kids friends, lampooning in a friendly way when one is going over the top, even when well-meaning, so I mostly think of it as a friendly ribbing. If it is getting a more aggressive use, it's probably better to stay away from it.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

As a word and as a concept it probably does not deserve the level of hatred directed at it.

It may not have originally. And in all fairness, most targets don't deserve it used as an insult.

HOWEVER, for the last couple of years, there are plenty of people who just have the schtick of whining about X, even if they have to invent a reason to. Whining about, say, social injustice is like their brand and their reason to have followers. They have to invent some to whine about, if no sane injustice presents itself, lest some other whiner steals their spotlight.

I mean, for example, I may have mentioned it before, but I was watching someone do a Let's Play of Kingdom Come: Deliverance. And the game had a perk called Troubadour that gives you +50% reputation with women and lets you score some free sex off prostitutes. You'd think anyone looking at even just the title of the perk, or that it's in the charisma section, and deduce that you might use some, you know, charisma and maybe a bit of song, to seduce them. I mean, you're not threatening any of those, nor anything, shall we say, GTA-like. And I mean, there even is an in-game precedent of one who's happy to be with another guy just because he treats her nicely instead of how the other villagers treat prostitutes. But anyway, you'd assume it's some consensual seduction, since nothing in the game indicates otherwise. Not our justice warrior. He was appalled -- APPALLED, I tell ya -- at the misogyny of the devs, and how unjust it is for those NPC women if you can just seduce them instead of paying for sex. You're stealing their livelihood!

And THAT is what I'm talking about. The guy just had to join in a whine that didn't even make any sense, to protect NPC women from consensual sex, just for the sake of not losing his SJW cred. (And again, there are plenty of other people who don't deserve SJW used as an insult. But then some do deserve all the hate.)

And just to make it clear, the same goes for any X the other side of the political spectrum. There are, for example, people whose schtick is to whine about "ethnically diverse female" or "The Message" in every movie, even if they have to invent a reason to whine. If they didn't, why someone else might, and steal those precious subscriptions.

You'd have thought that mass communication would have cleared misunderstandings, made people better informed, and generally solved these kinds of problems. Instead it just created a race to the bottom, for pretty much the glory of being the biggest whiner.

And by now that noise is drowning most of the useful signal.

 

[theprestige]

Wokeism is a form of cargo-cult social justice activism. It's a highly performative, functionally inert display of Correct Thought, without any actual critical thought about what steps should be taken towards what goal, or whether the steps being taken are actually getting there.

For instance, casting a black man in the role of the whitest of the Aesir is peak wokeness. Doesn't actually mean anything other than "look at what we're doing here!", but will give good feelings to people who get off on the idea that something is being done. Even if the only thing actually being done is the manufacture of that feeling.

That feeling, and the manufacture of that feeling, is the essence of Wokeism.

 

[Norman Alexander]

"Woke" probably means a different thing to each person who uses it. So there's no "Webster's Definitive" definition at all.

But people who use the term "woke" as an insult are simply looking for an excuse to be nasty crap-heads to people, or classes of people, they don't like. It's the same method as Trump calling information he doesn't like "Fake News!" It's code for "false equivalence I am prepared to do". By labeling a person in some fashion such as "woke", whether correctly applied or not (usually not), they can then be categorised, then comfortably demeaned, despised or dismissed.

The same can be done just as well with the words "liberal", "left-wing", "antifa", "socialist" and "communist". And, frankly, "right-wing", "fascist" and "Nazi", if care is not taken.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

@theprestige
Well, what annoys me the most is how often it actually makes the opposite case.

Like the social justice YouTuber I just mentioned, essentially just showed an underlying belief that a prostitute basically stops being a woman, or anything else than a hole for sale. Any other kind of sexuality, like having a boyfriend or affair on the side just because she really likes the guy, and he's charming, did not register for him. Once she went down that path, it's either for money or some kind of theft of service. I'm really not sure he wasn't the one actually more bigotted than those he was defending those NPC women from.

Or since you mention the whitest of Aesir, thing is, well... what do racist companies actually do? Well, stuff like hire a black receptionist or two to fill the quotas, and no other black in the whole organization, is pretty much a stereotype at this point. What did they make Heimdall in the beginning? Yep, the flippin' black receptionist of the gods. Other gods can do intrigues, go to war, and other glorious stuff, he gets to be the token black guy at the front desk. Bonus point for also (at least at first) being the movie trope of the token black guy who dies first and at most serves as motivation for the properly white heroes to fight. Well, only NEARLY die in his case, but still, same trope.

So like, why were the keyboard warriors even defending that?

 

[Stout]

I view the “woke” criticism to be invalid, since to me it implies the person or institution being targeted has simply said “we want to take steps to ensure people feel welcome here instead of being marginalized based on attributes such as gender, gender identification, race, colour, creed, country of origin, or sexual orientation.”

That's the writing on the front of the glossy brochure but when you get into the fine print you'll realize you're being sold an entirely different product.

As a for instance...I noticed that you didn't capitalize the word Black in your opening sentence and were I wanting to go all woke I'd point that out and tack on something about what that says about you, or outright call you a racist.

 

[arthwollipot]

I recently wrote this on another forum:

The thing is that "Woke" really is a placeholder for "Something I don't like."

It is much more sinister, considering the things the fascist who use the term like and don't like

I agree.

I used to say that the unironic use of the term "woke" was a clear indicator to me that it was safe to absolutely ignore everything that person said, but I've changed my mind. Now I pay really close attention to what they say, because I'm very concerned about what other things they may be saying. The unironic use of the term is so strongly associated with social attitudes that I consider extremely and directly harmful - authoritarianism, alt-right ideology, white supremacy, MGTOW and incel culture, and yes, anti-gay and anti-trans bigotry, that I want to be alert for it and call it out when I see it.

I'm not saying that everyone who uses the term necessarily holds or endorses those social attitudes, but there is a strong correlation. Some people may simply be ignorant of the baggage that their use of the term carries. To them I would say take a look around. Look at the harm that other users of the term cause. Do you really want to be associated with that?

 

[d4m10n]

I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of others on this.

I'm hesitant to ascribe a new meaning to a turn of phrase that's been floating around at least a decade now.

https://twitter.com/sohumstudios/status/120959254449504257

https://twitter.com/AngNaomi/status/215244762654048256

https://twitter.com/Ex_Introvert/status/279773316695330817



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