“Woke”

[bruto]

Yes the January 6th violence was a direct threat to democracy. However the violence done during the BLM protests had nothing to do with democracy.

True of course, property destruction is a bad thing, and it should not have happened, but the BLM protests were made by different people for a different reason, and met in large part by a very different opposition and reception.

And as you yourself pointed out there were many such protests in many places. Sheer statistical percentages might need to be taken into account even if you don't see a distinction between traditionally marginalized minorities fed up with a nationwide bias against them that too often ends in murder, and a bunch of entitled yahoos trying to overthrow the government.

 

[Hercules56]

True of course, property destruction is a bad thing, and it should not have happened, but the BLM protests were made by different people for a different reason, and met in large part by a very different opposition and reception.

And as you yourself pointed out there were many such protests in many places. Sheer statistical percentages might need to be taken into account even if you don't see a distinction between traditionally marginalized minorities fed up with a nationwide bias against them that too often ends in murder, and a bunch of entitled yahoos trying to overthrow the government.

I honestly don't believe any of the people who committed the violence or arson or property damage represent the BLM movement at all. I think the violence and arson and property damage was done by a very small minority of hooligans and thugs and opportunists who just wanted to express their rage at the universe. Social justice was the furthest thing from their minds.

 

[bruto]

I honestly don't believe any of the people who committed the violence or arson or property damage represent the BLM movement at all. I think the violence and arson and property damage was done by a very small minority of hooligans and thugs and opportunists who just wanted to express their rage at the universe. Social justice was the furthest thing from their minds.

So it appears, and yet you seem earlier in the thread to have been comparing the BLM protests with the Capitol insurrection as if it had relevance either to the protestors or the cause.

 

[Hercules56]

So it appears, and yet you seem earlier in the thread to have been comparing the BLM protests with the Capitol insurrection as if it had relevance either to the protestors or the cause.

No, i compared the violent BLM people with the violent 1/6 people.

 

[d4m10n]

So no actual answer to GF's question then.

I'll paraphrase.

It's often good to hear an opposing view, because we cannot know in advance which views are correct and because one can draw a clearer picture of any given issue by understanding how incorrect views are soundly refuted.

GF is free to assume his views are correct (and FdB's incorrect) but he's missing out either way.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

He's trivially wrong and really aught to know it. His contention is that 'woke' is a movement but it won't call itself that to hide from scrutiny while his examples and own writing shows that it isn't a movement anyway even in the way he encapsulates it.

"No one reading it can deny that there has been a jolting cultural change in the US left over the past 10-15 years. I cannot see why progressives would deny it, unless they want to place their ideology beyond the normal bounds of debate."

The highlighted is true, limiting it to 'the left' is not just dishonest, it's startling stupid. The reason the silly criticisms (as opposed to ones with more merit which don't gain as much traction because they're not nearly problematic enough to alarm) of 'woke' gain traction even among 'liberals' and 'moderates' is because so much of it is just old people being old people. Yes, culture changed and that makes old people so mad as it always has. I say that as an 'old' person now myself. I'm probably one of the youngest posters here and I'll be forty this year, and the number of things I have to explain to people my own age about the culture of anyone under thirty in the US is just staggering.

Some old people who used to be 'progressive' and 'left' just don't keep up and become cranks and one or more subjects. Suddenly that thing is 'woke'. It is as simple as not accepting new evidence. That's it. That's the game. There's a lot of hedging and hawing about 'no, you don't understand, this little nuanced thing is the real reason the experts and society at large are wrong about X, I'm not an extremeist who just rejects it all!' Yeah, just let you be wrong about that thing, and if it's less obviously wrong than the people killing over it, it's reasonable to be wrong about.

Nick there shows how little he understands when he comes so close to self-awareness with these lines.

"Two ideas can be true simultaneously. A new and distinct “woke” ideology developed after 2010 in American academia, and boorish right-wingers use “woke” to mean “whatever I don’t like”. "

Sure Nick, 'woke' doesn't really mean 'whatever the right wingers don't like', it means, 'whatever non-right wing thing you don't like.' That's so much better.

Cohen absolutely loves make up straw men to punch down on those he disagrees with.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I'm surprised he hasn't migrated to Spiked.

I was surprised he didn't get a gig with the Torygraph or the Times. But I then read why he ran away from the Observer, some pretty serious complaints of sustained sexual harassment.

 

[wareyin]

No, i compared the violent BLM people with the violent 1/6 people.

The "violent BLM people" that, according to you weren't BLM people:

I honestly don't believe any of the people who committed the violence or arson or property damage represent the BLM movement at all. I think the violence and arson and property damage was done by a very small minority of hooligans and thugs and opportunists who just wanted to express their rage at the universe. Social justice was the furthest thing from their minds.

You don't think smearing the BLM protests with the actions of people even you don't think were affiliated with BLM is a tad bit misleading?

 

[Hercules56]

Cohen absolutely loves make up straw men to punch down on those he disagrees with.

It's really sad and pathetic when anyone feels they can't actually take on the honest views of their opposition and feels instead they can only take on exaggerated, hyperbolic caricature version of their enemy. Even worse when they only do this for reasons of being lazy.