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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine Part 4

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SpitfireIX said:
"Almost all of them have been used more than once in real combat operations."
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Reminds me of a joke classified ad:

"Parachute for sale. Used once, never opened, small stain."

It's not enough for a weapon to have been used in real combat. It has to actually perform well too, and I don't know who actually thinks that Russia's weapons are performing well.
 
Ziggurat said:
Reminds me of a joke classified ad:

"Parachute for sale. Used once, never opened, small stain."

It's not enough for a weapon to have been used in real combat. It has to actually perform well too, and I don't know who actually thinks that Russia's weapons are performing well.
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The Sale's Pitch of Russian weapon manufacturers must be:
"Our weapons are GREAT! It's just our troops that are stupid, untrained, corrupt and on drugs."
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The Sale's Pitch of Russian weapon manufacturers must be:
"Our weapons are GREAT! It's just our troops that are stupid, untrained, corrupt and on drugs."
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The version I heard:

"Russian weapons completely outclass the western counterparts, which become obsolete relative to the Russian systems. These Russian systems are superior in every way - accuracy, ease of use, warhead power, armor penetration. Everything.

Until it comes time to actually manufacture and use them.

Then they usually don't get built at all (Su-57, Armata tank) and fail massively when they do (S-400 anti-aircraft system)."
 
SpitfireIX said:
He said Russia's offer included high-precision weapons and robotics. "Many of them are years, or maybe decades ahead of their foreign counterparts, and in terms of tactical and technical characteristics they are significantly superior to them."
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Which is funny because for decades everyone has understood that the attraction of Russian gear was that it was technologically inferior to western stuff, but also much cheaper, and more than adequate for facing off against opponents who also couldn't afford the western stuff. India doesn't buy Russian so it can go up against NATO. It buys Russian so it can hold its own against China (though I'm sure India would feel a lot more secure if it could afford to face off with China using western stuff instead).
 
crescent said:
. . . and fail massively when they do (S-400 anti-aircraft system)."
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I think it was Perun who made the point recently (possibly in the video The Don linked above) that air defense is one of the few areas where Russia is at least arguably superior to NATO. The reason for this is that the Russians are way behind NATO in airpower, so they devote far more resources to antiaircraft systems. This is probably why Turkey was willing to buck NATO and buy the S-400. Although that system is clearly not perfect, of course.
 
SpitfireIX said:
I think it was Perun who made the point recently (possibly in the video The Don linked above) that air defense is one of the few areas where Russia is at least arguably superior to NATO. The reason for this is that the Russians are way behind NATO in airpower, so they devote far more resources to antiaircraft systems. This is probably why Turkey was willing to buck NATO and buy the S-400. Although that system is clearly not perfect, of course.
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Russia is arguably superior to NATO in air defense, in the sense that they've invested much more heavily in air defense formations on the ground. The US Army, for example, has never really gotten around to fielding a proper self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery vehicle. Each generation of US APC has a prototype air defense variant, but ultimately anything that can't be handled by a Stinger gets handed off to the Air Force for the Ace Combat special.

Sure, there's Patriot and THAAD, but it's a paltry showing compared to the hordes of SAM and SPAAG gear the Russians are supposed to have, to keep enemy air power at bay.

But now we're seeing that the Russians aren't even that good at the one thing they're supposed to be really good at.

And when we look at naval air defense, it's a whole other story. It turns out that where air defense really matters to NATO, Russia is absolutely inferior. The Aegis system does at sea what Russian air defense artillery wishes it could do ashore. "We have it and you don't" isn't necessarily a sign of superiority. It could well be a sign that this is the best we can do, and you've already moved on to something better. I think this is the case with Russian air defense.
 
The Don said:
It indicates emphasis.
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Apart from mocking your Binnen-I I was asking a serious question. Where is this counter-offensive other than in the propaganda rags you finance with your tax payer money?

Do you know Arrestovic (nomen est omen), the sidekick of the green-shirted clown who pretends to be in charge in Kiev, and his current utterances? Look them up, he will tell you about what he thinks about his fellow Ukrainians, psyops and integrity.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
Apart from mocking your Binnen-I I was asking a serious question. Where is this counter-offensive other than in the propaganda rags you finance with your tax payer money?

Do you know Arrestovic (nomen est omen), the sidekick of the green-shirted clown who pretends to be in charge in Kiev, and his current utterances? Look them up, he will tell you about what he thinks about his fellow Ukrainians, psyops and integrity.
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It's in the Russian propaganda claims regarding the success they've had in repelling said counteroffensive. :confused:

As a result of the defeat of the Ukrainian offensive on Zelensky's personal orders in Nikolaev-Krivoi Rog and other directions, the enemy suffered significant losses.

Effective actions of the Russian groupping of troops have destroyed 48 tanks, 46 infantry fighting vehicles, 37 other armoured fighting vehicles, 8 pick-up trucks with large-calibre machine guns and over 1,200 Ukrainian servicemen.
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Throwing some cannon fodder against a brick wall is not a counter-offensive. You prayed for it since months, how they would "liberate" Kherson and Crimea and the Donbass, and even tried to mock me for telling you that it won't happen, and now "it" happened, and it was another slaughter of victims sent to the meat grinder because of the scum in Kiev and their masters. This is all senseless cruelty.
 
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