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Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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Meadmaker said:
I'm reading the law.
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Yes, and making assumptions about how it will be implemented, just as I am.

The law has a private right to sue. Maybe the school feels a less insane way to approach this new law is appropriate, but if the person bringing the complaint disagrees, they can drag everyone to court. Even if the school prevails, litigation itself is a punishment. You don't have to be creative to see the perverse incentives here.
 
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Maybe if actual boys, boys that are known to be boys by everyone concerned, were to stop trying to insert themselves into the girls' events, none of this legislation would be needed.
 
Rolfe said:
Maybe if actual boys, boys that are known to be boys by everyone concerned, were to stop trying to insert themselves into the girls' events, none of this legislation would be needed.
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If my wife didn't burn the roast I wouldn't have to blacken her eye.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Yes, and making assumptions about how it will be implemented, just as I am.

The law has a private right to sue. Maybe the school feels a less insane way to approach this new law is appropriate, but if the person bringing the complaint disagrees, they can drag everyone to court. Even if the school prevails, litigation itself is a punishment. You don't have to be creative to see the perverse incentives here.
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I have long been an advocate of tort reform that would reduce the number of frivolous lawsuits. Yes, the private right to sue is bad. However, as bad as it is, it won't lead to genital inspections or anything else. What it could conceivably lead to is frivolous lawsuits thrown out of court.

Because the law says, quite specifically, that there is one thing required for compliance. The school must present a signed physician's statement. Period. That's what has to be done to comply.

The cause of action in the private lawsuit can only be in response to an alleged violation of the law, which means that the plaintiff would have to contend that the school district didn't produce a legitimate physician's statement. That's it. That's the only thing on which a cause of action could be based. The plaintiff can't demand some other procedure. So, if the school district is using a sane procedure, the plaintiff can't demand some other procedure.

Well, of course, you can sue for anything. A plaintiff can file a lawsuit based on a complete and total misunderstanding of the law, and demand all sorts of things. However, the judge will throw the suit out.

The only possible way it gets past the opening gate is if the school district doesn't produce the certificate. And, why would they not? Uhh....invent fantasy if you like, but the only reason they wouldn't would be if they're letting people of the male sex into the girls' section.

This law will never result in a single genital inspection, ever. It won't result in high school girls being dragged into court. None of the terrible things that someone on Twitter said will happen, will happen. It's just not in the law.


But....you like to indulge in guilt by association. If you look at the history of these private causes of action as a means of enforcing laws, I think you will find that the Democrats have a very long history of supporting that sort of thing. The Trial Lawyers are staunch supporters of the Democratic Party. Maybe the GOP is finally catching on how effective it can be?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
If my wife didn't burn the roast I wouldn't have to blacken her eye.
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What a ridiculous non-sequitur. I repeat, if boys weren't trying to insert themselves into girls' events, there would be no need for all this. You think the girls should just accept being treated like that and not protest?

Girls have feelings and ambitions too you know. There are events for boys. Boys should compete where they belong.
 
Rolfe said:
I've been shocked by how little anyone seems to care about women...
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These days, I'm inclined to stop right about there. The volume of scenarios where people just seem to not give a crap about females as an entire group is astonishing. Even well outside of situations where males are demanding the privilege of invading female spaces and overriding female boundaries and consent.
 
Rolfe said:
What a ridiculous non-sequitur. I repeat, if boys weren't trying to insert themselves into girls' events, there would be no need for all this. You think the girls should just accept being treated like that and not protest?

Girls have feelings and ambitions too you know. There are events for boys. Boys should compete where they belong.
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Burnt roast is a real problem, and if there were no burnt roast, there would be no need for blackened eyes.
 
Emily's Cat said:
These days, I'm inclined to stop right about there. The volume of scenarios where people just seem to not give a crap about females as an entire group is astonishing. Even well outside of situations where males are demanding the privilege of invading female spaces and overriding female boundaries and consent.
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I saw a local vocal TRA on twitter saying that she had a hard time getting her head around it but it appeared that these awful TERFs simply don't realise that transwomen are really women. I took this on board and remarked that I had a hard time getting my head round it, but it appeared that the vocal TRAs actually think that transwomen are literally woman.

I was smartly put right by several posters. No they don't. If they thought that they'd treat them the same way they treat women - talk over them, impose decisions on them without their input, and value their feelings at zero. The very fact that they don't do that, that they always prioritise the demands of the trans lobby over the needs of women, shows they know very well who are the women and who are the men.

And yes, the TRA in question is a woman. A completely captured politician.
 
Meadmaker said:
Part of that is the visibility issue. Part of it is that there is such an easy dodge, which is to say that everyone in prison should be safe.

In practice, that dodge ends up being what theprestige said, specifically, "Until that day, women will just have to suck it."
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It's not a dodge to point out that the transphobes don't see to give a **** about the vast majority of sex abuse and general abuse in women's prisons that don't involve the anti-trans hobby horse.

The most dangerous people to women in prison are the guards, and it's not even close.
 
Just as well that the women (and men) campaigning to keep women's prisons single sex and to improve the conditions in general are not "transphobes" then.

I don't think this "transphobe" creature even exists. It's just a term made up to avoid rational argument.
 
Rolfe said:
Just as well that the women (and men) campaigning to keep women's prisons single sex and to improve the conditions in general are not "transphobes" then.

I don't think this "transphobe" creature even exists. It's just a term made up to avoid rational argument.
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I dunno, how would you describe the person sending bomb threats to schools in Kiel over their trans-inclusive policies?
 
theprestige said:
For the record, I care a lot about women in prison, and in other places as well.
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:) I know you do, as do several of the other regular posters in this thread. And I appreciate it very much. Please know that my general ire is not aimed at you in any way.

theprestige said:
My view is that women in sports is easily accessible, as you say. It's also got incontrovertible statistical evidence to work with. You don't have to waste any time dealing with "evidence?" and "I don't trust that researcher" and "that journal is compromised". You can get straight to the data and its implications.

Therefore, my view is also that answering the sports question will necessarily answer all the other questions. I think this is why TRAs are standing firm on "sports doesn't matter". Because if sports does matter, then the sports problem has to be solved instead of ignored. And the same exact factors that make sports a problem make prisons a problem, and shelters a problem.

And the solution to the sports problem ends up being the same solution for all the other problems. At which point it becomes pretty clear that as a practical matter, where it counts, where there are problems in need of solutions, transwomen simply are not women.

And that's the end of the controversy. That's the end of the push to normalize men in women's prisons.
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Maybe. I hope so.

Sports is more visible, definitely. And it's something that more males care about, and as much as it irks me to say it... females cannot take this threat on without the support of males. So if sports brings them in where prisons and rape shelters don't... so be it.

My fear is that while sports will raise awareness of the overall issues, it will lose momentum as soon as sports has been addressed.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I dunno, how would you describe the person sending bomb threats to schools in Kiel over their trans-inclusive policies?
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Criminal.

"Transphobe" is such an over-used word as to have become meaningless. I suggest you stop throwing it around as an all-purpose insult and actually engage with the issues.

Do you celebrate young people of both sexes being encouraged on to a medical pathway that will leave them infertile, without any adult sexual desire, likely to have serious surgucal complications and with an increased risk of serious medical issues in later life? Maybe we could think of a nasty word for people who support this, and bandy that around?
 
Sideroxylon said:
That is a pretty dense take on what it means for something to be socially constructed.
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Awesome. So now you've downplayed mental health and the serious side effects of it, dismissed a great many people who have problems that need medical attention... AND you've put the cherry on top by calling me dumb because I didn't read your ******* mind. Great job!
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Ohio anti-trans law to keep trans kids out of sports will subject accused children to genital inspection.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-gop-passes-bill-aiming-to-root-out-suspected-transgender-female-athletes-through-genital-inspection

considering there's only currently one trans girl playing in Ohio sports, this law seems destined to subject more cis girls to humiliating and invasive unnecessary medical exams than prohibit trans girls from participation.





Sorry to all the cis girls who will be targeted by spurious and malicious accusations requiring them to undergo penis inspections and blood work to play sports, but the hatred of trans kids takes first priority.
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I get tired of your dishonest framing. In the even that a student's sex is disputed, it requires a note from a physician.

And since you always seem to conveniently "forget" how the world works, those students would have gone through a sports physical in the first place, so the doctor already KNOWS their anatomy.
 
Rolfe said:
So if we want the trains to run on time, we're making common cause with Mussolini? If we're vegetarians and fond of animals we're making common cause with Hitler? Is that how your reasoning processes work?

Try to get it into your skull. We are standing up for women and children. For women, to preserve our intimate spaces, sports categories and so on from being invaded and taken over by males. For children, to halt this iniquitous tide of sterilisation, chemical and surgical mutilation, removal of all adult sexual feeling, and exposure to a horrifying list of later health conditions.

I for one am not to be deflected from this by the fact that some US politicians who are quite unpleasant people have decided to jump on the bandwagon for their own ends.
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EXACTLY!
 
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