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Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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Matthew Best said:
I would have thought that the odds of right wingers being feminists was pretty low?
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Someone should explain this to the TERFs who keep finding common cause with them. Plenty of them seem happy to make their deal with the devil, because these hard-right states are likely the only ones going to pass these anti-trans laws they want so bad.

theprestige said:
Much like Russia in the Ukraine, the trans-activists could put a stop to this whole mess with one simple trick.
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Yes, the "why do you make me hit you" theory of politics.
 
So if we want the trains to run on time, we're making common cause with Mussolini? If we're vegetarians and fond of animals we're making common cause with Hitler? Is that how your reasoning processes work?

Try to get it into your skull. We are standing up for women and children. For women, to preserve our intimate spaces, sports categories and so on from being invaded and taken over by males. For children, to halt this iniquitous tide of sterilisation, chemical and surgical mutilation, removal of all adult sexual feeling, and exposure to a horrifying list of later health conditions.

I for one am not to be deflected from this by the fact that some US politicians who are quite unpleasant people have decided to jump on the bandwagon for their own ends.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Someone should explain this to the TERFs who keep finding common cause with them.
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I think they already know. What's your point? Because right wingers and feminists share a viewpoint on one particular subject, one or other of them should reconsider? Why?

Should I reconsider my support for punctuality on British Rail because Hitler made the trains run on time?
 
Rolfe said:
So if we want the trains to run on time, we're making common cause with Mussolini? If we're vegetarians and fond of animals we're making common cause with Hitler? Is that how your reasoning processes work?

Try to get it into your skull. We are standing up for women and children. For women, to preserve our intimate spaces, sports categories and so on from being invaded and taken over by males. For children, to halt this iniquitous tide of sterilisation, chemical and surgical mutilation, removal of all adult sexual feeling, and exposure to a horrifying list of later health conditions.

I for one am not to be deflected from this by the fact that some US politicians who are quite unpleasant people have decided to jump on the bandwagon for their own ends.
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I'm more talking about morons like Herzog or Andy Sullivan who express dismay that their fellow "anti-woke" travelers turn out to be not very nice. Turns out the "I didn't think leopards would eat my face" was not really satire.
 
I have no idea who you are even talking about. I repeat, I am not to be deflected from my support for women and children by the fact that some unpleasant people in America have jumped on the bandwagon for their own ends.
 
Rolfe said:
My God, these people are crazy. And actual child abusers.
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No, they aren't.

At least, I assume they aren't. I'm going to actually check the law to be sure, but we've been through this before in some other state. I don't remember which one.

Basically, every student athlete, and in many cases every student, at high school or above, must complete a full physical before participating. Full physicals are just that. Full physicals. You have to take your clothes off for them. Yes, I had to bend over and cough just to enter high school.

At least in that other state where this came up, the required genital inspection was, "produce the record that a physical had been performed" and that the sex was recorded as female. I'll take heavy bets that's what this law also says.

So, basically, the coach has to have the records for all his students, and produce them on demand.

Now, I'm going to go off and read the law and verify that's what it actually says, but I would be very, very, surprised if it said anything else.
 
Rolfe said:
I have no idea who you are even talking about. I repeat, I am not to be deflected from my support for women and children by the fact that some unpleasant people in America have jumped on the bandwagon for their own ends.
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They haven't jumped on the bandwagon, quite the opposite. At least in the US, it's been the reactionary's bandwagon all along.
 
Meadmaker said:
No, they aren't.

At least, I assume they aren't. I'm going to actually check the law to be sure, but we've been through this before in some other state. I don't remember which one.

Basically, every student athlete, and in many cases every student, at high school or above, must complete a full physical before participating. Full physicals are just that. Full physicals. You have to take your clothes off for them. Yes, I had to bend over and cough just to enter high school.

At least in that other state where this came up, the required genital inspection was, "produce the record that a physical had been performed" and that the sex was recorded as female. I'll take heavy bets that's what this law also says.

So, basically, the coach has to have the records for all his students, and produce them on demand.

Now, I'm going to go off and read the law and verify that's what it actually says, but I would be very, very, surprised if it said anything else.
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Well if that's all it is, then I take it back. I was remembering Caster Semenya's traumatic account of being repeatedly asked to drop [her??] panties in front of the track officials at multiple athletics meets.

Which just goes to show that that is far from being a reliable way to tell, since Caster Semenya is undoubtedly a man. It also goes to show that people involved in this have to be aware of the existence of DSDs, request appropriate additional testing if necessary, and be prepared to deal very very sensitively with any girl they have to communicate an unexpected and very unsettling diagnosis to.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
They haven't jumped on the bandwagon, quite the opposite. At least in the US, it's been the reactionary's bandwagon all along.
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That really, really isn't relevant. If something is wrong it is wrong, and it remains wrong no matter how many unpleasant people also say it is wrong, or when they started saying it.

You have never ever, not once, answered the points about the medical abuse of confused children and teenagers; the mutilation, the self-loathing, the sterilisation, the loss of all sexual feeling and the increased susceptibility to a whole list of adverse health outcomes being promoted by this "trans kids" bandwagon.
 
Rolfe said:
That really, really isn't relevant. If something is wrong it is wrong, and it remains wrong no matter how many unpleasant people also say it is wrong, or when they started saying it.

You have never ever, not once, answered the points about the medical abuse of confused children and teenagers; the mutilation, the self-loathing, the sterilisation, the loss of all sexual feeling and the increased susceptibility to a whole list of adverse health outcomes being promoted by this "trans kids" bandwagon.
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It's relevant in explaining why these laws keep turning out to be monstrous in practice, be it penis inspections for cis-girls or Texas trying to throw parents in prison. The people advocating for these laws are dripping with bigotry, and it's absolutely being reflected by the laws they pass.
 
It says this:

"(D) If a participant's sex is disputed, the participant shall establish the participant's sex by presenting a signed physician's statement indicating the participant's sex based upon only the following:
(1) The participant's internal and external reproductive anatomy;
(2) The participant's normal endogenously produced levels of testosterone;
(3) An analysis of the participant's genetic makeup."
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I'm not seeing an "or" statement in the law. The plain reading of the text requires all three tests, including penis inspection, to be performed by a physician.
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Laws can be tough to read, I guess.

It says that there are three things that can be used to determine sex, and only those three things may be used. It does not say that all three must be used.

And, to reiterate, what it means in practice is that the coach must produce records which he, or at least the school district, already has, of the required participation physical. The person whose sex was disputed would rarely actually know that their sex was disputed. There would be no need to tell the student involved, or do any extra testing.

In the incredibly unlikely event that it even got to the point that additional testing was demanded, a cheek swab test would be fine.
 
Meadmaker said:
Laws can be tough to read, I guess.

It says that there are three things that can be used to determine sex, and only those three things may be used. It does not say that all three must be used.

And, to reiterate, what it means in practice is that the coach must produce records which he, or at least the school district, already has, of the required participation physical. The person whose sex was disputed would rarely actually know that their sex was disputed. There would be no need to tell the student involved, or do any extra testing.

In the incredibly unlikely event that it even got to the point that additional testing was demanded, a cheek swab test would be fine.
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You're making a lot of assumptions about reasonableness about a law that has baked in a private right to sue for the most unreasonable, insane people who feel the law wasn't appropriately followed.
 
I like this short tweet from Aaron Kimberly on different types of trans activists.

Never ceases to amaze me that it is so easy to invent an ideology and not only convince people that it's based on 'science', but also that they themselves actually came up with most of it.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It's relevant in explaining why these laws keep turning out to be monstrous in practice, be it penis inspections for cis-girls or Texas trying to throw parents in prison. The people advocating for these laws are dripping with bigotry, and it's absolutely being reflected by the laws they pass.
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From what others have said, with evidence, it appears that "penis inspections" are not happening. What I'm seeing in your arguments is blind hatred of certain politicians, so strong that it's blinding you to the very real harms of the position they (for whatever motives) are opposing.

And yet again, although you quoted the entire post, you make no comment on the appalling things that are being done to children and young adolescents in the name of the gender fairy.
 
Rolfe said:
From what others have said, with evidence, it appears that "penis inspections" are not happening. What I'm seeing in your arguments is blind hatred of certain politicians, so strong that it's blinding you to the very real harms of the position they (for whatever motives) are opposing.

And yet again, although you quoted the entire post, you make no comment on the appalling things that are being done to children and young adolescents in the name of the gender fairy.
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That evidence being wishful thinking.
 
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