Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[JoeMorgue]

Anyone remember that clip that went viral years ago of the DEA Agent demonstrating gun safety to a group of kids and literally, with a comedic timing that any stand up would sell their soul to get, right after saying "I'm the only one in this room responsible enough to handle this weapon" he shoots himself in the kneecap?

 

[Meadmaker]

I think any attempt is a waste of time, doomed to fail.

Sounds like nihilistic defeatism to me.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Anyone remember that clip that went viral years ago of the DEA Agent demonstrating gun safety to a group of kids and literally, with a comedic timing that any stand up would sell their soul to get, right after saying "I'm the only one in this room responsible enough to handle this weapon" he shoots himself in the kneecap?

The leader of the Oath Keepers, a hero to the MAGAs, shot out his eye during a gun safety class he was leading.

 

[Ranb]

Also we're back in the great lie.

When Bill Clinton banned assault weapons... mass shootings went down. When the Republicans overturned that ban in 2004 they went back up. That's one of those, waddacallem... facts.

We have data points, even in America, that getting rids of guns makes being killed with a gun less likely, something that in any sane world would be obvious you wouldn't have to prove it.

The AWB of 1994 had a provision that sunset the law in 2004 unless Congress extended it. It was not overturned, just went away. W. Bush said he would sign a bill to extend the AWB if the GOP controlled Congress passed the bill, which of course they did not.

 

[Warp12]

Another press conference, more disgrace:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-friday/index.html

This should take the heat off of the "regular" cops, to a large extent. Clearly their commander was telling them not to take action. There should be no expectation for them to tear a page from John McClane's book and make a lone-wolf effort.

Calling these cops "cowards" is entirely misplaced.

 

[Andy_Ross]

chief Texas safety official Steven McCraw "If I thought it would help, I would apologise,"

He confirmed a 40 minute gap from the police unit's arrival to when they entered the classroom.
Pupils inside made multiple calls begging for police to come.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61613177

The delay happened in part because the commanding officer on scene believed the situation was no longer one involving an "active shooter", he said.

The description is at odds with the disclosure that at least four emergency 911 calls were made from within the school - apparently from children barricaded inside the classroom where the gunman was firing - begging for police to come.

Mr McCraw confirmed that as many as 19 police officers had gathered outside the classroom but they made no effort to get inside

He is said to have fired hundreds of rounds into classrooms as he walked around the building looking to get inside.
After he was shot dead, police found as many as 1,657 rounds of ammunition in his possession.

 

[plague311]

Calling these cops "cowards" is entirely misplaced.

They're definitely cowards. There was no way the command to not go in, or whatever, was immediately given. The cops who were first on scene should have been in the building and engaging and it appears they were in the building, just outside the door, and did exactly **** all.

I get you have to lick those boots like a lollipop, it's all you've done in this thread, but those cops had an obligation to act.

They were cowards. Pathetic cowards.

 

[EaglePuncher]

This should take the heat off of the "regular" cops, to a large extent. Clearly their commander was telling them not to take action. There should be no expectation for them to tear a page from John McClane's book and make a lone-wolf effort.

Calling these cops "cowards" is entirely misplaced.

Stupid morons is way more appropriate.

 

[Meadmaker]

From an earlier quote, from a press conference:

"The on-scene commander at that time believed that it had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject," Texas Department of Public Safety Col. Steven McCraw said.

I think this fits with what I was saying earlier, about an indecisive guy in charge. Perhaps not even indecisive, just having made a particular decision, which decision seems to be a bad decision.

It sounds like the cops were totally blocking out the hallway, so the kids in classrooms other than the one in question were safe.

That, too, seems like a bad decision. With that many cops around, and a shooter whose weaponry isn't actually known, a sudden attack by the gunman could result in a hail of bullets or possibly an explosion. That tactical vest he had on could be stuffed with explosives. Keeping the kids inside the building seems like a really bad idea.

Meanwhile, kids inside the room might be bleeding to death, or, as we know now actually happened, might have escaped detection, which could end at any minute.

Eventually, someone else showed up on the scene and said, (not a direct quote) "What the hell is going on? Get in there and take him out! Oh, never mind, we'll do it!" And then, and only then, did it end.

 

[Andy_Ross]

This should take the heat off of the "regular" cops, to a large extent. Clearly their commander was telling them not to take action. There should be no expectation for them to tear a page from John McClane's book and make a lone-wolf effort.

Calling these cops "cowards" is entirely misplaced.

no it isn't there were 19 of them stood outside the actual room the *****.

They should have told the commander to **** off.

 

[Disbelief]

Columbine in 1999 resulted in lots of promises to act.

Sandy Hook in 2012 resulted in lots of promises to act.

They were also both followed by increases in gun sales, the mobilisation of the NRA to stop many gun control laws and many arguments that the 2nd Amendment cannot be amended.

The school massacre that will happen somewhere in the USA in 2032 will also result in lots of promises to act.

That's changing your argument. Before you were saying that anything done would be futile, now you seem to be saying that it's futile anything will be done. I can agree with the latter, but disagree with the former - which was your original argument.

 

[arayder]

This should take the heat off of the "regular" cops, to a large extent. Clearly their commander was telling them not to take action. There should be no expectation for them to tear a page from John McClane's book and make a lone-wolf effort.

Calling these cops "cowards" is entirely misplaced.

Just let us know when you wanna' stop making the "Yeah, but. . ." argument, Warp.

The fact remains that every cop in the U.S. knows that standard operating procedure is to confront the shooter right away.

So the idea that a commander can't get it right should be even more troubling.

------
Dope Clock II: It's been 347 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

 

[plague311]

This article from NBC has a pretty decent layout of their failures too.

The part that makes the local cops bigger dumb ***** than I thought they were at first is:

Uvalde Police Department allegedly prevented agents from Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement who arrived at the school between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m. — earlier than previously reported — from going inside...It’s not clear why they weren't allowed to enter the school.

The article says it hasn't been verified, but if true that makes the cops not only ******* stupid for not acting, but even dumber for stopping those who aren't pant wetting cowards from doing something.

McCraw revealed that the gunman entered the school through a back door he found propped open at 11:33 a.m. and began shooting in classrooms 111 and 112. At least 100 shots were fired in the harrowing attack, he said.

Just two minutes later, at least three police officers entered the same door the gunman did. By 12:03, there were as many as 19 officers in the hallway.

There were 19 of them outside the door, and they didn't even have the balls to try to breach to save some kids. Pathetic.

 

[JoeMorgue]

"I demand a civil debate about why cops standing by and letting 19 school children be massacred is cowardly!"

Why is ~40% of the population like this now?

 

[Warp12]

No doubt the internet is full of tough guys who would have disobeyed the orders of the Commander, told him to **** off, and ran straight into that room, taking rifle fire, dodging bullets, and blasting!

A lot of them do this on a daily basis, on their xbox, after all.

 

[plague311]

No doubt the internet is full of tough guys who would have disobeyed the orders of the Commander, told him to **** off, and ran straight into that room, taking rifle fire, dodging bullets, and blasting!

A lot of them do this on a daily basis, on their xbox, after all.

No one told the cops to back down when the 19 were standing outside the door, from what I can find. Maybe you know something I don't? Kidding, you don't.

You might have successfully deepthroated the boot had there not been 19 cops. This wasn't 1 or 2 that we're complaining about. They had more than enough to breach, distract, and save lives. Getting shot is in the job description. The fact is they ****** up at every single opportunity.

 

[Bob001]

This should take the heat off of the "regular" cops, to a large extent. Clearly their commander was telling them not to take action. There should be no expectation for them to tear a page from John McClane's book and make a lone-wolf effort.

Calling these cops "cowards" is entirely misplaced.

If 19 heavily armed cops had told the guy "Hey, boss, this is effed up. We gotta go in now," he might have reconsidered.

 

[dudalb]

Very unlikely, a GoP politician criticizing a police force within their own jurisdiction is just asking to be primaried.

You seem to be wrong in this case; Even Fox New commentators are blasting the Uvalde police for the way they handled this.
The Cowardice is just too much for many conservatives to stomach.

 

[Andy_Ross]

No doubt the internet is full of tough guys who would have disobeyed the orders of the Commander, told him to **** off, and ran straight into that room, taking rifle fire, dodging bullets, and blasting!

A lot of them do this on a daily basis, on their xbox, after all.

Yes some do, that's how medals are won.

Don't judge others by your own standards.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Meanwhile, kids inside the room might be bleeding to death, or, as we know now actually happened, might have escaped detection, which could end at any minute.
.....

A lot of commentators are talking about "the golden hour," that first hour after a traumatic injury when victims have the best chance of surviving if they get immediate care. There's not much doubt that some of those kids might have lived if the cops had gotten in earlier.