• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

Status
Not open for further replies.
NRA Statement:

"As we gather in Houston, we will reflect on these events, pray for the victims, recognize our patriotic members, and pledge to redouble our commitment to making our schools secure."

"Thoughts and prayers", and it's the fault of the schools for not being secure enough.
 
Warp12 said:
Well, I think we really need to know what the leadership was advising. If the cops had a standing order not to enter and to wait for the cavalry, I think it is unreasonable to expect them to act as lone wolf cowboys. I imagine we know a lot more about the situation now than the cops did then.

And, to add, even what we know now...and some are judging others over...is very incomplete.
Click to expand...

Calling BS.

From Homeland Security. . .

PROFILE OF AN ACTIVE SHOOTER

An Active Shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area; in most cases, active shooters use firearms(s) and there is no pattern or method to their selection of victims.
Active shooter situations are unpredictable and evolve quickly. Typically, the immediate deployment of law enforcement is required to stop the shooting and mitigate harm to victims. Because active shooter situations are often over within 10 to 15 minutes, before law enforcement arrives on the scene, individuals must be prepared both mentally and physically to deal with an active shooter situation.
Click to expand...

https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf

And from Texas itself. . .

What to Expect from Responding Police Officers

When officers arrive, be prepared to calmly, quickly, and accurately tell them what they need to know:

location of the shooter
number of the shooters, if there’s more than one
description of the shooter
number and kinds of weapons they have.
Follow the officers’ instructions. Officers will take command of the situation by shouting orders and/or physically directing individuals to a safe place or the ground.

The first responding officers’ main objective is to stop the active shooter and create a safe environment for medical help for the injured. Officers who arrive later will help identify victims that need medical care and conduct interviews and counseling.
Click to expand...

https://preparedness.utexas.edu/safety/active-shooter-response-guide

---------
Dope Clock II: It's been 347 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
The CT nuts have already found something to latch on to, one of the teachers killed has a passing resemblance to one killed at Sandy Hook, and you know what that means... :boggled:

Meanwhile, I know it's be a monumental task, but I really think this present topic deserves it's own thread.
 
Last edited:
Mike! said:
The CT nuts have already found something to latch on to, one of the teachers killed has a passing resemblance to one killed at Sandy Hook, and you know what that means.
Click to expand...

More money for the survivors and families of the dead?
 
Darat said:
More money for the survivors and families of the dead?
Click to expand...

Actually, I have no idea what it means for normal, right thinking people, other than it sounds like crazy talk, but it's making the rounds already, with their pictures side by side, telling everyone who'll pay attention, that, "We're being played".
 
Last edited:
"We're one update away from hearing that the police accidently shot at least one of the kids." - A prediction I saw on Twitter.
 
Nessie said:
The majority of the firearms in the UK, prior to Hungerford and Dunblane, were possessed by people who had been granted a licence by the police and had been checked and assessed as safe to own a gun. The UK was not starting from anything like the situation found in the USA, where no one has any idea who has what gun and there are millions of guns, many of which are in the hands of criminals and others unsuitable to have a gun.

The notion that the USA just needs to do what the UK did, is nonsense, since the UK had significant gun control all across the country prior to any of the mass shootings, whereas the US has many federal and state laws, that often contradict each other and it has a huge pro firearms lobby that has never existed in the UK.
Click to expand...

While it would take a great deal of time and effort to get our gun situation under control, that is not really a reason not to try. There are relatively simple steps that can be taken.

The most straightforward, of course, is to create a proper national firearms database. State that all firearms sold or transferred in the US after such an such a date have to have a serial number, and that the transfer must be registered with the feds. Implement fines and punishments for non-compliance.

Sure, there are millions of guns out there in the US already, but between gun buybacks, wear and tear, and owners dying and passing on their collections, attrition would mean that the number of unregistered firearms in circulation would drop.
 
Random said:
While it would take a great deal of time and effort to get our gun situation under control, that is not really a reason not to try. There are relatively simple steps that can be taken.

The most straightforward, of course, is to create a proper national firearms database. State that all firearms sold or transferred in the US after such an such a date have to have a serial number, and that the transfer must be registered with the feds. Implement fines and punishments for non-compliance.

Sure, there are millions of guns out there in the US already, but between gun buybacks, wear and tear, and owners dying and passing on their collections, attrition would mean that the number of unregistered firearms in circulation would drop.
Click to expand...

That's I think part of the problem - unless the USA declares martial law and has the military go round and collect all firearms - is that it is going to take decades of small steps to get the USA firearm problems under control, and that as ever will be under pressure because you will still have mass shootings and so on whilst the changes are happening.
 
https://twitter.com/deenoonandraws/status/1529871163312201728

So, I’ve been trying to decide if I should post or not. I’m from Uvalde, I currently live in Uvalde. I’m a few blocks away from Robb Elementary. I use to pick up my siblings from the school. It’s a poor neighborhood where wild chickens have run of the place. But regardless,

I’ve always felt safe here. I ride my bike around the neighborhood, people are friendly here. It’s a neighborhood filled with Latino families, I’m half Latina. We heard the shots. We knew to stay inside as the reports came in about a shooting on Diez st. Then we heard he was

Chased into the school. We are helpless. The cops do nothing but harass citizens they are suppose to be serving and protecting. I’m disgusted by our mayor sitting with Abbott and Cruz. Throwing ******** rhetoric of thoughts and prayers. I need people to know.

We are not a red state. We are a oppressed state. Gerrymandering has put the power into the few. Stop telling us to just go vote. We vote. But the system is rigged. We need help. We are being held hostage by this corrupt government. It is such a helpless feeling.

I’m so angry. I’ve been angry. And I feel like I’m just screaming into a void. Abbott and Cruz, let us die in the cold two years ago. They let us die in the ongoing pandemic. And they will continue to let our children die with gun reform because of money.

I don’t know what more I can do. Sorry for this unorganized rant. I just don’t know what to do. #Uvalde #uvaldetexas
Click to expand...
 
Nessie said:
The tactics I was taught, as an unarmed UK response cop, were to establish where the armed person was and then set up a cordon so that people could be kept away from the shooter.

I also worked as an unarmed security guard in MA and I was given the same advice if I became aware of a shooting, which did happen in one place I worked. Thankfully, it was during a night shift and there were no public about and someone else had phoned the cops as I did, so very quickly cops were on the scene. The first thing they did was set up a cordon, so that no one could go past where the shooters were.

You are correct that the police's first duty would be to identify where the shooter is and to try and keep people away.
Click to expand...


I think the issue is that there were some people who were not away, i.e. they were near. I'm talking about the kids that were in classrooms other than the one in which the gunman was barricaded.

In other words, the key is not just to keep people away, but to get people away. What happened here is that parents were trying to get their kids away from the shooter, and the cops were trying to keep parents from doing that.

Maybe there was some reason that was a good idea, or maybe they just sort of reverted to the "We're in charge here. You keep out." attitude. It calls for an investigation. My first thought would be that if parents were capable of reaching kids and extracting them, maybe someone else should have already done it.


However, I will also acknowledge the possibility of other scenarios.

Is it possible that the shooter had a line of fire to the outside, and that in extricating students from the classrooms, the kids would have been exposed to fire? Maybe what happened was that the inside of the building was crawling with cops, so much so that they thought the safest thing to do was have the kids shelter in place, guarded by police.
 
Nessie said:
A reporter on UK Sky News has claimed that whilst some cops were not doing anything, others were breaking windows and getting people out.

Tactically, that would make sense, some cops man the cordon and others try and rescue.

However, that does not appear to have been what was being done as a coordinated plan. It looks like that just happened, as the cops reacted differently in the chaos. That smacks of poor leadership, poor training and a local force who could not recruit suitable people to be cops.
Click to expand...

I just have a hunch that what will eventually be found is that there was a guy in charge on scene who was indecisive and not coming up with a decent plan.

Just a hunch, but that is what it seems to me. Of course, the report won't come out and say that directly.
 
Random said:
While it would take a great deal of time and effort to get our gun situation under control, that is not really a reason not to try. There are relatively simple steps that can be taken.

The most straightforward, of course, is to create a proper national firearms database. State that all firearms sold or transferred in the US after such an such a date have to have a serial number, and that the transfer must be registered with the feds. Implement fines and punishments for non-compliance.

Sure, there are millions of guns out there in the US already, but between gun buybacks, wear and tear, and owners dying and passing on their collections, attrition would mean that the number of unregistered firearms in circulation would drop.
Click to expand...

Good luck in getting all Americans to honestly declare exactly what firearms they possess.

How do you plan to get criminal gangs to declare their weapons? Or, white supremacists holed up in some backwoods compound. Or survivalists? Or Republicans who think that is none of your God-damn business?

You are also relying on the gun industry agreeing to just stop making and selling guns in the USA.
 
Last edited:
Fox News has 50 solutions to the school shooting problem. :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/TheTNHoller/status/1529852744646934528

-24 hours at the Fox ******** Factory
-50 “solutions”
-None involve regulating weapons of war

It would almost be impressive if it wasn’t so sadistic. (Salute to whoever made this)
Click to expand...

"Solutions" are in the video. But be careful not to get sucked into a black hole of stupid.
 
Last edited:
Meadmaker said:
Is it possible that the shooter had a line of fire to the outside, and that in extricating students from the classrooms, the kids would have been exposed to fire? Maybe what happened was that the inside of the building was crawling with cops, so much so that they thought the safest thing to do was have the kids shelter in place, guarded by police.
Click to expand...

My takeaway from this is that trying to shelter in place only works if the rescue you're waiting for actually tries to come rescue you. It may be wiser in these events for everybody to just run like hell.
 
Nessie said:
Good luck in getting all Americans to honestly declare exactly what firearms they possess.

How do you plan to get criminal gangs to declare their weapons? Or, white supremacists holed up in some backwoods compound. Or survivalists? Or Republicans who think that is none of your God-damn business?

You are also relying on the gun industry agreeing to just stop making and selling guns in the USA.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? A gun registry of sales and transfers would not mean any of that. If you have guns and don't sell or trade them, whatever, enjoy your personal collection, legal or illegal.

It would make buying or selling a firearm without registering the transfer a crime, not the sale of the firearm itself, so firearm manufacturers could keep selling stuff if they wanted.

The millions of unregistered firearms already out there would eventually fall out of circulation due to attrition...
 
Random said:
What are you talking about? A gun registry of sales and transfers would not mean any of that. If you have guns and don't sell or trade them, whatever, enjoy your personal collection, legal or illegal.

It would make buying or selling a firearm without registering the transfer a crime, not the sale of the firearm itself, so firearm manufacturers could keep selling stuff if they wanted.
Click to expand...

Good luck getting criminal gangs, white supremacists, prepers & those who think it is none of your God-damn business to honestly declare all gun sales and transfers.

The millions of unregistered firearms already out there would eventually fall out of circulation due to attrition...
Click to expand...

Only if gun makers and gun shops agree to stop making and selling any more guns.
 
*Shrugs* And? The Supreme Court has already ruled that police don't have any actual obligation to actually do anything.
 
Nessie said:
Good luck getting criminal gangs, white supremacists, prepers & those who think it is none of your God-damn business to honestly declare all gun sales and transfers.
Click to expand...

Their compliance isn't really needed. If they don't comply, and they get caught, they get charged. Make the charge include no more possession of firearms, like felonies and domestic assault. As was stated, the amount of guns owned and the amount of owners of guns will shrink.

We get it, there will be people who won't comply. I'm sure it won't be the first time, I'm sure it won't be the last. That doesn't mean you just don't do **** because it won't solve everything. Yes, it will take time, but this is the definition of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". We've done nothing for a long time, that's not working, so now we have to try something else.

Nessie said:
Only if gun makers and gun shops agree to stop making and selling any more guns.
Click to expand...

Why would they have to do that? They can make and sell guns as long as they follow the laws that are in place. I don't understand why you're hellbent on this "all or nothing" attitude.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom