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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key.

What the hell kind of doors are on classrooms nowadays? I never went to a school where the doors couldn't be kicked in or broken through by one or two strong guys. Do schools have doors like they have at Fort Knox now?
 
The father of one of the dead girls is making some pretty loud noises about the delay between the beginning of the incident and the time the shooter was killed.
 
An oxymoron.

It's either AK47-style, as in assault rifle, or it's a pistol, of which both semi- and fully-automatic style have existed for aeons.

I guess you could call a pistol "AK-47-style" if it's hopelessly inaccurate but can still be fired after six months at the bottom of a swamp.

There are AK47 and AR15 firearms with short barrels that are sold as pistols. One distinction might be that short-barreled rifles are licensed differently from pistols.
https://www.impactguns.com/ak-47-pistols/
https://gunnewsdaily.com/best-ar-15-pistols/

Of course they don't look like Glocks. But they're sold as pistols.
 
What the hell kind of doors are on classrooms nowadays? I never went to a school where the doors couldn't be kicked in or broken through by one or two strong guys. Do schools have doors like they have at Fort Knox now?

They are likely to be fire-certified doors, which means they have a certain amount of weight and bulk and might well be steel. And if they open outwardly, as exit doors typically do, kicking at them wouldn't do much damage.
 
The witness reports are ******* horrible. Wake up America and tell the NRA to **** off.

Pretty sure pretty much all Americans tell the NRA to **** off? What do they have now, like 30 actual members or something?

But the NRA has money, presumably mostly from manufacturers, so they have power and influence in DC. Add them to the pile of special interest lobbyists to 86, and clean House.
 
I am not saying it is not an aid. Instead, I have shown evidence that even single or limited shot firearms can be used in mass shootings to great effect.

Do snipers not tend to use single or limited shot rifles?

You just want all private ownership of guns banned, period.
That will never ,every happen in the US. It just politiclly impossible.
Anyway, the real problem is with assault weapons. Let's concentrare on that.

It's considered a historically factual (I'm too lazy to cite the research right now) that the lethality of firearms greatly increased in the mid 1800's with the introduction of multi shot handguns (black powder revolvers) and lever action rifles (like Winchesters). Of course these firearms generally replaced muzzle loading single shot pistols and rifles which were terribly slow to reload. So the technological leap forward was far greater than that between bolt action rifles and semi-automatic rifles.

To me it seems perfectly possible for someone to be able to practice using a pump action shot gun or a bolt action rifle with great effect It's reported that Germans attacking British positions in WWI manned with bolt action Enfields thought they were running into machine gun fire.

On the other hand, it seems me the average school/supermarket shooter is a ****head with an anti-authority problem expressed as a suicide by cop death wish. I suspect they use ultra high cap mags because they don't want to deal with mag changes. So it seems to me they aren't likely to put the work in needed to get good with bolt action rifle.

But I could be wrong.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 345 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
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The father of one of the dead girls is making some pretty loud noises about the delay between the beginning of the incident and the time the shooter was killed.


There still seems to be a lot of fog. But here's one report.
By 12:10 p.m., a Facebook live stream recorded outside the front of the school showed police cars had established a perimeter, helicopters were flying overhead and onlookers had gathered. Seven minutes later, school authorities announced on social media there was “an active shooter at Robb Elementary.”

Shots were still being heard at 12:52 p.m., according to radio recordings. “Do not attempt to get closer,” a voice warned on the EMS channel.

After hearing shooting, authorities said, a tactical team formed a “stack” formation and eventually breached the classroom door and killed Ramos in a shootout. Ramos was in the room for some time before police officers entered, and it was unclear whether he killed the students when he first barricaded himself inside or just before the police breached the room.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/25/reconstruction-timeline-uvalde-school-shooting/

So the shooter was at it for at least 42 minutes.
 
What AR15 rounds do to flesh.
One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

It’s relatively small, but it leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. It has so much energy that it can disintegrate three inches of leg bone. “It would just turn it to dust,” says Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. If it hits the liver, “the liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor.” And the exit wound can be a nasty, jagged hole the size of an orange.

These high-velocity bullets can damage flesh inches away from their path, either because they fragment or because they cause something called cavitation. When you trail your fingers through water, the water ripples and curls. When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissues ripples as well---but much more violently. The bullet from an AR-15 might miss the femoral artery in the leg, but cavitation may burst the artery anyway, causing death by blood loss. A swath of stretched and torn tissue around the wound may die. That’s why, says Rhee, a handgun wound might require only one surgery but an AR-15 bullet wound might require three to ten.
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/

It is not unreasonable to ask what possible justification can there be for weapons like this to be in civilian hands.
 
What AR15 rounds do to flesh.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/


https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/

It is not unreasonable to ask what possible justification can there be for weapons like this to be in civilian hands.

I'll take the same reason civilians use "cop killer bullets" for $100.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
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What the hell kind of doors are on classrooms nowadays? I never went to a school where the doors couldn't be kicked in or broken through by one or two strong guys. Do schools have doors like they have at Fort Knox now?
They tend to be fire safety doors, not to mention we want them to be able to lock the shooters out.
 
The father of one of the dead girls is making some pretty loud noises about the delay between the beginning of the incident and the time the shooter was killed.

If it was close to a full hour, it does suck and he has every right to scream about it.

I wonder why they couldn't have moved to the windows on the outside of the building. I wonder if that classroom had windows.
 
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Pretty sure pretty much all Americans tell the NRA to **** off? What do they have now, like 30 actual members or something?

But the NRA has money, presumably mostly from manufacturers, so they have power and influence in DC. Add them to the pile of special interest lobbyists to 86, and clean House.
We (as in people for common sense gun regulation) haven't done enough to attack the NRA and its corrupt leadership when it was exposed.


And on another hopefully useful note, Seth Meyers had a pretty good closer look last night.

Ignore some of the drivel he stuck in in a few places, but the majority was right on.
 
They tend to be fire safety doors, not to mention we want them to be able to lock the shooters out.

I heard one commentator say that many classroom doors are designed so they can't be locked from inside the room, that they have to be locked from the outside with a key. There are probably good reasons for that, or once were, but the doors can't be locked quickly when a threat is reported.
 
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It is just insane that the same conservatives that have no regard for teachers to decide themselves what to teach should decide how they want to use firearms in the classroom.
 
But the NRA has money, presumably mostly from manufacturers, so they have power and influence in DC. Add them to the pile of special interest lobbyists to 86, and clean House.

For years critics of the NRA has said it's a front for the gun manufacturers, but the relationship appears to go the other way. Leaked phone calls after Columbine show the manufacturers take their cues from NRA's leadership.

Also surprising: Wayne LaPierre is supposedly a timid man -- and a terrible shot. He'd rather sell ice cream than guns.
 
Looks like Suburban Turkey was right....

Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in. Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-t...n=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter
 
That's not what the CDC would do. We already know it is a public health issue. What they could have been doing was researching the circumstances of all these shooters and publish recommendations on how to prevent them.

How do you know they wouldn't have useful recommendations if you haven't seen any research on the topic?

Because - shocking news - I have already read research on the topic. The CDC is not the only group of scientists doing research, you know. What makes you think the recommendations issued by the CDC would be any different from those previously formulated in existing studies? And what makes you think they won't get ignored just the same?

The problem is not that solutions aren't known. The real problem is that a significant part of the population is against them.
 
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