Should Ukraine give up?

Michel H said:
Can you prove it? (Hiroshima wasn't destroyed by Russia, you know).

I would personally be interested in knowing what Yanukovych thinks, expressed in a free way, not "corrected" by U.S. censors (and I suspect many people would be interested too).


(https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/yanukovych-addresses-zelensky-urges-him-to-stop-fighting/)
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Why? What value is the word of a Putin associate? What difference does the word of a dog vying to be the first in line to hump Putin's leg make? If Ukrainians cared what the your Putin puppet said they wouldn't have overthrown him.
 
jimbob said:
I suspect not.

And, given how accurate the publicised Western intelligence reports have been to date, if Ukraine does surrender, internment camps are planned.
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It might get worse then that

:https://mil.in.ua/en/news/brave-new-world-of-putin-an-article-by-the-propaganda-publication-ria-novosti-which-was-to-be-published-after-the-occupation-of-ukraine/

If that article is true, then cultural genocide is on Putin's agenda.
It reads like Hitler's infamous General Plan East.
And what is scary is that many of the "Traditional Russian Sphere of Influence" countries
in that artical are NATO members..........
 
Of course, if the resistence gets bad enough Putin can just starve Ukraine to death. Putin is supposecely a big fan of Uncle Joe...
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Whatever the answer, it's up to the Ukrainians to decide.
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It is extremely common, and very often appropriate, to recommend a course of action to the person responsible for deciding, and to judge the merits of the course taken, after the person responsible has made their decision.

"Should America start a nuclear war?"

Is your answer, "no!"

Or is your answer, "whatever the answer, it's up to the president and the cabinet to decide."

It is left as an exercise to the reader, to determine which response represents rational human behavior, and which response represents an alien space robot trying and failing to establish a rapport with Earthlings.
 
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dudalb said:
It might get worse then that

:https://mil.in.ua/en/news/brave-new-world-of-putin-an-article-by-the-propaganda-publication-ria-novosti-which-was-to-be-published-after-the-occupation-of-ukraine/

If that article is true, then cultural genocide is on Putin's agenda.
It reads like Hitler's infamous General Plan East.
And what is scary is that many of the "Traditional Russian Sphere of Influence" countries
in that artical are NATO members..........
Click to expand...

dudalb said:
Of course, if the resistence gets bad enough Putin can just starve Ukraine to death. Putin is supposecely a big fan of Uncle Joe...
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And this is why I'm not enthusiastic about the idea of Ukrainians continuing to fight and win as an insurgency inside occupied Ukraine. There's a whole playbook for dealing with insurgencies, if you're not interested in humanitarian restraint or actually letting the insurgents oppose you. Just because the west hasn't brought out that playbook in living memory doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Doesn't mean Putin isn't going through it right now with a hiliter and those little plastic tags.
 
dudalb said:
It might get worse then that

:https://mil.in.ua/en/news/brave-new-world-of-putin-an-article-by-the-propaganda-publication-ria-novosti-which-was-to-be-published-after-the-occupation-of-ukraine/

If that article is true, then cultural genocide is on Putin's agenda.
It reads like Hitler's infamous General Plan East.
And what is scary is that many of the "Traditional Russian Sphere of Influence" countries
in that artical are NATO members..........
Click to expand...

That is true, I had seen that confirmed elsewhere* and Google Translate of Vixen's link.


*pretty sure I posted it in the other thread about a week ago
 
theprestige said:
And this is why I'm not enthusiastic about the idea of Ukrainians continuing to fight and win as an insurgency inside occupied Ukraine. There's a whole playbook for dealing with insurgencies, if you're not interested in humanitarian restraint or actually letting the insurgents oppose you. Just because the west hasn't brought out that playbook in living memory doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Doesn't mean Putin isn't going through it right now with a hiliter and those little plastic tags.
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It depends on the alternatives.

Those seem to be his plans for Ukraine when it is compliant not in order to get compliance.
 
picture.php
 
theprestige said:
I always assumed that those were his plans either way, and that Ukraine wasn't going to be compliant regardless.
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In which case, resistance is the only option for Ukraine.

A protracted occupation is bad for everyone, which is why NATO should act to protect the uninvaded parts of the country as soon as possible.

Putin has been at war with the West. Calling his bluff but with the NATO troops not attacking unless threatened would probably be the escalation to deescalate that he apparently seems to believe in.
 
Apparently Israel offered a deal from Putin, and Ukraine said no. Don't know the details yet.
 
jimbob said:
In which case, resistance is the only option for Ukraine.

A protracted occupation is bad for everyone, which is why NATO should act to protect the uninvaded parts of the country as soon as possible.

Putin has been at war with the West. Calling his bluff but with the NATO troops not attacking unless threatened would probably be the escalation to deescalate that he apparently seems to believe in.
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Poland could annex western Ukraine, making it part of the NATO alliance.

:)
 
jimbob said:
In which case, resistance is the only option for Ukraine.

A protracted occupation is bad for everyone, which is why NATO should act to protect the uninvaded parts of the country as soon as possible.

Putin has been at war with the West. Calling his bluff but with the NATO troops not attacking unless threatened would probably be the escalation to deescalate that he apparently seems to believe in.
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Exactly.
 
Hercules56 said:
Poland could annex western Ukraine, making it part of the NATO alliance.

: )
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Poland could simply roll into western Ukraine, draw a line in the sand along the current battlefront, dare Putin to cross it, and invite the rest of western Europe to join them in holding it.

Doesn't have to be an official NATO thing.
 
Hercules56 said:
Apparently Israel offered a deal from Putin, and Ukraine said no. Don't know the details yet.
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At this stage, I can't imagine Putin offering anything that Ukraine would be willing to accept. Maybe if his forces were thrown back, and he was at risk of losing even Donbas, he'd come up with a palatable offer.
 
Why not have Poland annex western Ukraine, so that much of Ukraine will be under official NATO protection? This of course would be temporary.
 
Hercules56 said:
Why not have Poland annex western Ukraine, so that much of Ukraine will be under official NATO protection? This of course would be temporary.
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I'm pretty sure NATO membership doesn't work that way. Poland annexing Ukraine would be a unilateral act of (nominal) aggression. NATO would nope out of any involvement in Poland's problems arising from such a unilateral act.
 
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