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Should Ukraine give up?

Captain_Swoop said:
What does 'Full Bear' consist of?

What will they do that that they aren't doing now?

Would you give up?
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Well, it's not full Paddington Bear, that's for sure. Bruno is king of the forest, the largest predator of northern Europe. Massive long paws with sharp claws. Swims, climbs, runs with ease. No knocking on the door asking to use your toilet and with a soft loo roll, if you please. No. This wild savage beast will just **** in your front yard without a by your leave and rummage through your bins, stuffing its face. That is Full Bear. That is the Russian way.
 
Vixen said:
Well, it's not full Paddington Bear, that's for sure. Bruno is king of the forest, the largest predator of northern Europe. Massive long paws with sharp claws. Swims, climbs, runs with ease. No knocking on the door asking to use your toilet and with a soft loo roll, if you please. No. This wild savage beast will just **** in your front yard without a by your leave and rummage through your bins, stuffing its face. That is Full Bear. That is the Russian way.
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Item:Zelensky was the voice of Paddington Bear in the Ukranian languge version of the live action Paddington Bear movies.
 
Vixen said:
Well, it's not full Paddington Bear, that's for sure. Bruno is king of the forest, the largest predator of northern Europe. Massive long paws with sharp claws. Swims, climbs, runs with ease. No knocking on the door asking to use your toilet and with a soft loo roll, if you please. No. This wild savage beast will just **** in your front yard without a by your leave and rummage through your bins, stuffing its face. That is Full Bear. That is the Russian way.
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How does that answer the question?

Are the Russians going to send actual bears in to Ukraine?
 
Hercules56 said:
There are reports in the Jerusalem Post that Russia and Ukraine are negotiating a path to peace, and its a hard one.

-Ukraine will have to give up Donbass region.

-Pledge that Ukraine will not join NATO.

-Military of Ukraine must be reduced in size.


Zelensky knows that he has tons of support. Financial, sanctions and weapons. But no country will defend Ukraine. They will have to do all the fighting.

The word is if Ukraine rejects this offer, Russia will go full Bear and crush Ukraine, quick and painful. If Zelensky says no, he will look like a massive Ukrainian patriot. But possibly a dead one or be President of a non-existent nation.

If Zelensky says yes, he may look like a coward to some, but a pragmatic realist to others. NATO will not save Ukraine, maybe its not worth losing the nation in the name of pride and honor. I dont know.


https://www.jpost.com/international...ussia+and+Ukraine?&utm_campaign=March+9,+2022
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He is already trying to do that, and failing miserably

Just to give some perspective,

The USA had about 2,500 soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan over 10 years
The Soviet Union lost about 15,000 in Afghanistan over 10 years
There are already 4,000 Russian soldiers dead in this invasion, in less than three weeks.
 
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theprestige said:
Red Dawn is a romantic notion that starts with an absurd premise and solves it in typical Hollywood feelgood fashion.
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True, however before the invasion, most analyses were pointing out that it would be one thing for Russia to take cities and parts of the country. It would be another to hold it indefinitely against an angry populace.
 
theprestige said:
I figured Donbass is already lost from the last time around. Agreeing to that costs Ukraine nothing else at this point. But the rest of it just makes it easier for Russia to finish the job next time.

My view is that Ukraine should concede Donbass to get rid of the territorial dispute, and then join NATO as quickly as possible.

The real question is, should NATO give up? I.e., declare that it's not going to admit Ukraine anyway, on account of not wanting to run the risk of actually having to defend them next time around.
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Or say we will - we have no need to "keep our word", help Ukraine rebuild and so on, and in the meantime work with the Ukraines to admit them as a member later on.
 
smartcooky said:
He is already trying to do that, and failing miserably

Just to give some perspective,

The USA had about 2,500 soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan over 10 years
The Soviet Union lost about 15,000 in Afghanistan over 10 years
There are already 4,000 Russian soldiers dead in this invasion, in less than three weeks.
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I don't think Afghanistan gives a good perspective. Engagements in a counter insurgency are going to be much smaller affairs than engagements between peer mechanized forces.
 
Vixen said:
Well, it's not full Paddington Bear, that's for sure. Bruno is king of the forest, the largest predator of northern Europe. Massive long paws with sharp claws. Swims, climbs, runs with ease. No knocking on the door asking to use your toilet and with a soft loo roll, if you please. No. This wild savage beast will just **** in your front yard without a by your leave and rummage through your bins, stuffing its face. That is Full Bear. That is the Russian way.
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Bears aren't all that...at least not compared to cats. See the last of these short vids:



:)
 
Darat said:
Can Ukraine give-up and remain an independent democratic country?
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I suspect not.

And, given how accurate the publicised Western intelligence reports have been to date, if Ukraine does surrender, internment camps are planned.
 
Giving up would be little more than escaping the frying pan just so they can set up housekeeping in the fire. May as well fry as long as you can and and let the fire burn itself out from lack of fuel.
 
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