The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[Blue Mountain]

The longer this drags on with continued success on the part of Ukraine in resisting the Russian advances, the more I'm hopeful of a successful outcome for Ukraine. With the convoy to Kyiv completely stalled, more and more aid coming in from the West, and Russia's economy on the brink of collapse due to sanctions, the idea Ukraine might actually win this war is no longer unthinkable.

I'm reminded of World War II when, while making an address to the Canadian House of Commons in Ottawa, Winston Churchill famously said, “When I warned them [officials of the French government] that Britain would fight on alone whatever they did, their generals told their Prime Minister and his divided Cabinet, ‘In three weeks England will have her neck wrung like a chicken.’ Some chicken! Some neck!”

 

[Aridas]

Let’s move this discussion away from macro-economic theory etc… I am sure there are other sub-forums where that could be more productively be discussed. It really isn’t important here what True Communism is and how it differs from the notorious splitters who perverted its pure majesty.

Meh. I wasn't planning on pursuing it much further, but it ever does irk me when arguments are forwarded that are no better than repeatedly trashing up with criticisms for down because up is being claimed to be down by a pack of total BSers.

 

[Klimax]

I almost never agree with presitge about anything but I do the "actual philosophy of communisma'.
I don't give a rat's butt about comnunism n the abstract. All I care about is how it worked in the real world, and the real world is has been a total failure at best, and a murder machine as bad as anything the world has seen at it's worst.
I don't see how anybody can make excuses for it.

Closest one could get would be Czechoslovakia(60s). Attempt terminated by Soviets.

 

[psionl0]

Let’s move this discussion away from macro-economic theory etc… I am sure there are other sub-forums where that could be more productively be discussed. It really isn’t important here what True Communism is and how it differs from the notorious splitters who perverted its pure majesty.

Communism as defined by Karl Marx (from each according to his ability to each according to his needs) does not and can not exist because it assumes an altruistic nation.

Communism in practice and as most people understand it means the complete government ownership and control of all means of production and consumption. Such a philosophy can only be enforced at gun point and this is Putin's aim.

 

[dudalb]

Communism as defined by Karl Marx (from each according to his ability to each according to his needs) does not and can not exist because it assumes an altruistic nation.

Communism in practice and as most people understand it means the complete government ownership and control of all means of production and consumption. Such a philosophy can only be enforced at gun point and this is Putin's aim.

As someone said about Commuism,, "Beautiful Theory, Wrong Species".

On the other hand , i am not going to condemn altrusim are evil a la Ayn Rand. I think people can often be alurtisitc, only to a degree. You can't expect them to be totally selfless, which is what communist theory demands.

 

[dudalb]

The longer this drags on with continued success on the part of Ukraine in resisting the Russian advances, the more I'm hopeful of a successful outcome for Ukraine. With the convoy to Kyiv completely stalled, more and more aid coming in from the West, and Russia's economy on the brink of collapse due to sanctions, the idea Ukraine might actually win this war is no longer unthinkable.

I'm reminded of World War II when, while making an address to the Canadian House of Commons in Ottawa, Winston Churchill famously said, “When I warned them [officials of the French government] that Britain would fight on alone whatever they did, their generals told their Prime Minister and his divided Cabinet, ‘In three weeks England will have her neck wrung like a chicken.’ Some chicken! Some neck!”

I still think Russia will manage to take the big cities thourgh sheer weight to numbers, but then will have an Insurgency to deal with that will make the wish for the good old days of Afghanistan.

 

[dudalb]

Probably already covered but this is probably just about the least wrong thing I have seen from Lindsay Graham despite it “drawing the ire” of republicans and Democrats.



https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084548984/lindsey-graham-putin

I despise Graham as being man without principals, a total lickspittle to Cheetoh Mussolini, but for him to get hell for this after all the other things he has said is mindboggling.
All the said is something most people think.I certainly don't disagree with him.

 

[dudalb]

It soon will be and that's the point. The devaluation is intended to instill panic in the Russian people and bring about regime change. The sanctions regime isn't intended to deter Putin. It's intended to cause the Russian people to rise up and do to Putin what Russians do when their leader gets them into unsuccessful and unpopular wars. There's a simple solution to all of Russia's current problems.

I thing to watch is the temper of the army. If the common Russian soldiers turns on Putin, he is through.

 

[Vixen]

I think the best way to avoid escalation, especially nuclear, is not to back down, but not to leave Putin with nothing to lose either.

Give him an "out" that could be acceptable. It's more important to end this (and by that I mean end it with Russia out of Ukraine and even Crimea if possible), than it is to humiliate/retaliate.

The 'out' being a blindfold, a glass of whisky and a gun.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

As someone said about Commuism,, "Beautiful Theory, Wrong Species".

On the other hand , i am not going to condemn altrusim are evil a la Ayn Rand. I think people can often be alurtisitc, only to a degree. You can't expect them to be totally selfless, which is what communist theory demands.

the fundamental problem of Communism is how information needs to flow - top-down control can only work when bottom-up information is moving swiftly and accurately.
An A.I. system using real-life data could probably manage it.

 

[Vixen]

Partial 'cease fire' to start this morning.

Partial ceasefire due to start in 30 minutes
More detail has emerged on the partial ceasefire in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol this morning. The measure will allow civilians to leave the city during a five-hour period from Saturday morning. From Reuters, citing Russia’s RIA news agency:

Civilians will be allowed to leave Mariupol between noon and 5 p.m. Moscow time (0900 - 1400 GMT), Russia’s RIA news agency quoted city authorities as saying. This is 11am to 4pm local time.
Russia said earlier on Saturday its troops, which have encircled the Azov Sea port city in Ukraine’s south, would stop firing and allow civilians to pass. Russia also plans a partial ceasefire to allow a humanitarian corridor out of Volnovakha.
Civilians will be able to proceed towards the city of Zaporizhzhia and will be able to use specially arranged bus routes or their own cars, the city council said.

GUARDIAN


Time for Russia to take stock and reflect on whether anything at all useful has been achieved other than wanton vandalism and destruction of its self-termed 'brothers'.

 

[Vixen]

A judge has frozen UK bank accounts operated by a British businessman amid allegations they are linked to one of Russia's most controversial oligarchs.

Accounts linked to Graham Bonham-Carter, second cousin of actress Helena, and part of the extended famous family, were put on hold on Friday.

National Crime Agency investigators believe the accounts were being used to help Oleg Deripaska avoid sanctions.
It is alleged Mr Bonham-Carter manages property on behalf of the oligarch.
Granting the order, Westminster Magistrates Court has given the National Crime Agency six months to investigate the accounts, in one of the first public court moves against an oligarch since the Ukraine crisis began.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60623026

<faints in shock> The CPS and the Met Police actually doing something...

 

[Vixen]

I predict Coca-Cola will soon pull out of Russia when it realises the reputation damage to its brand by persisting in trading there. Let's see if I am right.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Absolutely, and that's why I apologize for not being clear; I changed the subject a bit.

The context is not that the soldiers in Ukraine are going to be under the microscope because of knowing what it's like outside Russia - it's that they know the reports of war crimes such as shelling residential districts are true because they're watching it happen. Their experience with this invasion directly contradicts official messaging.

Putin's containment policy may be cut and dried about this.

His secret police are going to have to keep a lot of people quiet then.
It's not like just a small number of Russian troops are in Ukraine, it's most of the active strength of the army at the moment.

 

[Andy_Ross]

It's hard to say what the ramifications of this invasion will be. But it very well could lead to the fall of Putin's regime. But we're all speculating.

Russia simply isn't wealthy enough for this to drag on. It has the GDP of Italy. The real question is there a way to take this bully down. It's not like Russia's parliament has any power.

Maybe Putin's and his loyal billionaires will have to use some of their own loot to fund the fight. After all what's the point of amassing all that money if they you aren't going to use it?
Also, by all accounts Russia has a huge gold reserve, they have been hoarding it for years.

 

[jimbob]

US Drinks giant CocaCola have confirmed they will continue to support Putin and do "business as usual" in Russia despite the Ukraine invasion.

For anyone interested, here is a list of CocaCola brands

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coca-Cola_brands

In the UK, it includes Costa coffee

 

[JihadJane]

War is peace and slavery is freedom. Truly.

In what way is the description inaccurate?

 

[JihadJane]

There was no "coup".

Ukraine wanted to sign a pro-EU treaty and the President reversed course, instead looking to join an economic union with Russia. The people started to protest, the pro-Russian President started to crack down on them, they protested more, Russia started giving the President bribes, the President starting using Fascist tactics to stop the protests, the protesters reacted with violence against violence by the police, the President finally ran away cause he had created a disaster. That's not a coup, that's an ******* President ignoring the will of the people and then seeing the consequences of his authoritarian crackdowns.

Nice story , bro.

Neo-nazi groups initiated the violence by attacking the police.

It wasn't the protestors who started killing people with bullets.

 

[theprestige]

Zelensky wants air cover for Ukraine.

NATO says no because it doesn’t want to escalate.

How about a demand to Russia that it de-escalate?

Then if Russia refuses the no fly zone is on Russia’s head?

Yep, probably just a dream, but if not what do we do?

Give them air cover. It's clear Putin doesn't want to escalate either. Otherwise he would have already escalated over the missile shipments, or the sanctions.

 

[JihadJane]

Give them air cover. It's clear Putin doesn't want to escalate either. Otherwise he would have already escalated over the missile shipments, or the sanctions.

Or:

- NATO says NO because it doesn't want to start a nuclear war.

- NATO says NO because Ukraine was always just a sacrificial pawn in NATO/US geopolitical power games (maintain unipolar global hegemony).