The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[Venom]

Google has removed the Russian state media outlet RT from its news search tool.

A poor idea. Such censorship only increases the credibility of RT in the eyes of some.

Instead, RT should be subject to the scrutiny of all so that the extent of their lies can be known.

I would normally agree, but my blood still boils after the years of absolutely criminal propaganda that RT and their ilk engaged in during the most heated period of the Syrian civil war. They got away with it almost completely clean.

And yeah it was a very messy geopolitical situation where the bad guys/good guys were not always clearly distinguishable or visible for many people as they are in the current conflict. RT was one of the biggest reasons for that.

 

[Oystein]

Sorry about my mistake. I guess your avatar combined with some posts over time convinced me of you being from Germany.

Yes, I am from Germany. But I am not Germany. It's weird I have to make this explicit. (My avatar is Japanese)

 

[angrysoba]

That was an earlier post. I thought dudalb was referring to my comment that the 30 minute video about the Russia Ukraine conflict was very informative.

I give up.

This was the context. The guy was not well-known so I was actually defending you against dudalb's statement that "If you had been paying any attention to what has been going on in Russia, you would have know that".

https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1498393087952961541

Hope somebody shoots that fat **** right in the coconut.

I bet he stays well back of any fighting like a good armchair warrior. Do you suppose he might be wanted on the Jan 6 list?

Liberate Ukrainians and deNazify the country. What an idiot. Has it dawned on him yet there are no Ukrainians glad to see them?

Do we know yet what the Ukrainian separatists think about the Russians?

No, he has been in Donbass since 2014.

Interesting.

If you had been paying any attention to what has been going on in Russia, you would have know that.

Eh? Skeptic Ginger was talking about that fat American guy in the Donbas (which is in Ukraine, TYVM!).

 

[The Don]

I don't think Putin will ever stop pumping more resources in to Ukraine. The war won't stop until he's removed from power.

I agree, but IMO there's no way for him to be removed from power. His inner and outer circle have been purged of any kind of dissent so there's no-one close enough to the levers of power to remove him from power - and that includes by assassination.

Therefore the war will continue.

They are shifting more aircraft over to Ukraine. Troops stationed in the far east are being shipped west for "exercises". Belarus has sent troops into Ukraine even as Mussolini claims he's not entering the war. Putin is just adding more and more resources into this, doubling down again and again.

I agree, and he will continue to do it until Ukraine is conquered. I admit that I was wrong, I thought he just wanted a puppet in Ukraine but it seems that only conquest will satisfy him.

I don't know what will happen, but I think this could drag on - for years. He might try to split Ukraine up into manageable sections. If he can get rid of Zelenski he might be able to get a Ukrainian government that will negotiate - but any negotiated end to the war that is anywhere close to what Putin wants would be rejected by Ukrainian citizens who would just overthrow that government and pick up where they left off. He might try to cleave off a larger hunk of Eastern Ukraine, but that leaves the rest of the country furious and allied with NATO and motivated to run an insurgency in the occupied area - so I don't think Putin will for that.

I now have little doubt that Russia will occupy Ukraine, all of it, and I fear that the collapse of Ukrainian resistance will be quick once it starts. Morale will improve for the Russian forces and as they link up and encircle the Ukrainian defenders then I fear that the end will be quick, and bloody.

Whether or not there will be an insurgency will depend on whether Ukrainians want to be subjected to reprisal attacks. I can envisage any attack on the occupying forces, or the Ukrainian puppet regime resulting in hundreds of "Nazis" being summarily executed.

Ukraine is putting up a vastly better fight that anyone expected. But I'm sadly convinced that this will get worse, much worse, before it gets better.

I agree 100%

Putin can't back out now. He can't win, but he can't stop trying. He's in this for life.

This is where I disagree. I think that Putin can achieve a military victory in Ukraine and as long as he, and/or the puppet regime he installs, are sufficiently brutal in extinguishing any opposition, the problems will remain in the hands of the puppet regime and Putin gets what he wants:

• The bits of Ukraine he wants
• A buffer state
• Water for Crimea
• Access to any and all gas and oil in Ukraine
• A huge boost to his reputation at home

ETA: At this point, I think it won't be more than a week before Syrian and Hezbollah and maybe even Hamas fighters start appearing in Ukraine. If the Russian soldiers are too culturally aligned with Ukrainians to kill Ukrainians, Putin will find others who are not so squeamish.

Could be, but they may also be quite busy at home.

 

[Samson]

I would normally agree, but my blood still boils after the years of absolutely criminal propaganda that RT and their ilk engaged in during the most heated period of the Syrian civil war. They got away with it almost completely clean.

And yeah it was a very messy geopolitical situation where the bad guys/good guys were not always clearly distinguishable or visible for many people as they are in the current conflict. RT was one of the biggest reasons for that.

Is RT backing Putin here?
(I have no access to RT currently).

 

[GrandMasterFox]

ETA: At this point, I think it won't be more than a week before Syrian and Hezbollah and maybe even Hamas fighters start appearing in Ukraine. If the Russian soldiers are too culturally aligned with Ukrainians to kill Ukrainians, Putin will find others who are not so squeamish.

The last part is fine, Putin has no problem dealing with mercenaries.
Belarus soldiers? Sure.
Chechen soldiers? Maybe
But Syrian troops? Laughable.

The moment they actively interfere, they both lose all their current silly propaganda comparing Ukraine to Palestinians as well as open the door for Israel to freely interfere and send actual military equipment to Ukraine.

Not going to happen.

 

[jimbob]

Is RT backing Putin here?
(I have no access to RT currently).

Is Russian state media backing Putin?

yes

 

[The Don]

Is Russian state media backing Putin?

yes

Here's an interesting BBC article about how different the coverage in Russia is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60571737

It's not Russia Today, but it indicates where the editorial push is coming from.

 

[EaglePuncher]

A poor idea. Such censorship only increases the credibility of RT in the eyes of some.

Instead, RT should be subject to the scrutiny of all so that the extent of their lies can be known.

I'm sure contrarian trolls worldwide will agree with you.

ETA: Also I am not sure how "increasing credibility" works on a person who will literally believe anything....

 

[angrysoba]

Is RT backing Putin here?
(I have no access to RT currently).

Of course. RT is Russia Today. It is funded by the Russian state.

 

[arthwollipot]

Is RT backing Putin here?
(I have no access to RT currently).

You have no access to RT because Anonymous have killed it.

 

[Aridas]

I'm sure contrarian trolls worldwide will agree with you.

At some point, debunking becomes largely pointless and simply cutting off disinformers so their disinformation is not constantly being amplified is far more worthwhile. If we lived in a more ideal world, that might not be the case... but then, if we lived in said world, those disinformers would fairly certainly not have kept any traction in the first place.

 

[EaglePuncher]

At some point, debunking becomes largely pointless and simply cutting off disinformers so their disinformation is not constantly being amplified is far more worthwhile. If we lived in a more ideal world, that might not be the case... but then, if we lived in said world, those disinformers would fairly certainly not have kept any traction in the first place.

With a certain group of people, debunking is pointless from the very start. Most conspiridiots I know personally have a deeply rooted hate for the government and then this hate turns into "I am not allowed to believe anything that comes from the government".

So yeah, what would it help to tell these guys "The info you got is wrong, here is something that 100% confirms my claim"

 

[Andy_Ross]

BBC Rolling

Ukraine's armed forces say the preliminary figures represent all losses inflicted on Russian forces since the beginning of the invasion.

The BBC cannot independently verify these claims, but the UK defence ministry believes that Moscow's forces have suffered heavy losses during its invasion of Ukraine.

The total Russian losses being claimed by Ukraine so far include:

5,840 troops
30 aircraft
31 helicopters
Up to 211 tanks
862 armoured patrol vehicles (APVs)
85 artillery systems
9 anti-aircraft systems
60 fuel tanks
355 vehicles
40 MLRS rocket launchers (captured)

 

[Andy_Ross]

BBC Rolling

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace says Russia faces a "big challenge" entering the major cities of Ukraine, with both armed forces and civilians likely to repel approaching enemy forces by any means available.

He says it was part of Russian military doctrine to surround major urban centres and bombard "indiscriminately" eventually closing in on "a population that they hope to have broken, and taking over what's left".
But he says, the geographical size of Ukraine and its large population of 44m, would make occupation by Russia "very hard".

"That is when the real casualties start to pile up," he tells BBC Breakfast, citing Russia's experience in Chechnya, the Soviet Union in Afghanistan - and the West in Iraq.
"Invading a country with overwhelming force is one thing, occupying a people of 44 million, who don't want you in it, is a very different thing."

He rules out the option of Nato enforcing a no-fly zone, saying any clash arising from a breach of the zone by Russia "could lead to a war right across Europe".

 

[Andy_Ross]

BBC Rolling

Mixed reports coming out of Kherson

We're awaiting confirmation of Russia's claim to have captured the southern Ukrainian port city of Kherson.
Earlier Moscow said it was now in "full control" of the city, making it the largest in Ukraine to fall since the beginning of the invasion.
But the region's governor has said Kherson is completely surrounded by Russian forces, appearing to contradict the claim.
The city's mayor has also posted on Facebook: "We are still Ukraine. Still firm."

We will bring you more updates as they come.

 

[Arcade22]

A poor idea. Such censorship only increases the credibility of RT in the eyes of some.

Instead, RT should be subject to the scrutiny of all so that the extent of their lies can be known.

The only people who find RT credible aren't going to care about scrutiny, facts or really anything. Their minds are set.

If anything it's about basic human decency: you shouldn't give Russian propaganda that insults and defames Ukrainians and others every single day with vicious lies a platform to do so from. It's offensive to say the least. Like a TV channel airing Holocaust denial.

 

[The Don]

BBC Rolling

Ukraine's armed forces say the preliminary figures represent all losses inflicted on Russian forces since the beginning of the invasion.

The BBC cannot independently verify these claims, but the UK defence ministry believes that Moscow's forces have suffered heavy losses during its invasion of Ukraine.

The total Russian losses being claimed by Ukraine so far include:

5,840 troops
30 aircraft
31 helicopters
Up to 211 tanks
862 armoured patrol vehicles (APVs)
85 artillery systems
9 anti-aircraft systems
60 fuel tanks
355 vehicles
40 MLRS rocket launchers (captured)

As has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread, and has been repeatedly demonstrated in past wars, claims from one side for losses are rarely credible because they overestimate damage done to the opposition and understate their own losses.

To try and get a less biased number, should these figures be divided by 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 ?

 

[erwinl]

As has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread, and has been repeatedly demonstrated in past wars, claims from one side for losses are rarely credible because they overestimate damage done to the opposition and understate their own losses.

To try and get a less biased number, should these figures be divided by 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 ?

If you look at the Facebook page of Miniart Models (an Ukraine based model making business), they have pictures of large amounts of destroyed armor.
No way to discern by me, whether these are Russian or Ukrainian, though.

 

[trustbutverify]

Is RT backing Putin here?
(I have no access to RT currently).

You can't seriously be asking this question.