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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part IV

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Steve said:
With central heat, hot tub, and a fully stocked bar.
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7q7YJNrm.jpg
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Second and third hand reports in newspapers have no weight.
You are claiming that they were alive and taken away by the CIA.
You haven't even shown an actual report from anyone that saw them or spoke to them. That's why you had to invent your secret helicopter flight crewed by secret agents
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Here's the raw story on Avo Piht from 10/1994:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-holds-key-to-riddle-of-disaster-1440250.html

And this one's from a blogger 2020:

https://retrogradera.com/2020/11/03...at-happened-to-the-second-captain-on-estonia/

The whole story has yet to be told. The CTists never describe who listed him in the first place, nor the chain of events walking him from the life raft to wherever he is supposed to have vanished from. All they have is a grainy video clip of a guy who sort of resembles him. The CTists point to survivors being identified by name and date of birth, but if I steal your jacket, and or take your wallet (things that happened on the boat deck as Estonia was sinking) then I have that information. And if I'm a thief there is a good chance I'm a wanted man, so I'm not giving them my name, I'm handing giving them the name in the stolen wallet.

And yes, that's a stretch, but in this thread, not a big one.
 
Vixen said:
No, I said they were disappeared after rescue.

The Trident post is in response to a poster who claimed it was impossible for anyone to be located in the dark and I responded there actually commando teams of frogmen who can do exactly that sort of thing if required.
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And you are wrong.
 
JayUtah said:
But they didn't disappear. Being deprived of due process is not equivalent to being made to disappear. This is why one of the contemplated actions is legal as long as there is due process, and the other contemplated action is invariably illegal. They are different classes of behavior.
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No-one knew they had not disappeared until a long time later.

How would you feel if you were snatched away and no-one knew where you were?

You would want someone to be concerned enough to seek your whereabouts.
 
Vixen said:
The guys told to bring in the senior officers will have been appraised in advance who they are looking for, together with photos and personal details.

If someone can't talk, you send him to hospital and wait until he is better.
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Apprised, not appraised.
 
Axxman300 said:
Due learn about the concept of the passage of time.

MS Estonia sank in 1994, the two Egyptians were deported in 2002.

Estonia literally sank in a different world with a different set of values.
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You mean a bit like the Stone Age - Bronze Age - Iron Age - Combware Culture - Neolithic - Elizabethan - Victorian - WWII - Vietnam - 1990's - er, Simpsons?
 
Vixen said:
No-one knew they had not disappeared until a long time later.
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Literally no one, or just certain people? Their attorneys were notified 48 hours after the deportation had occurred -- not exactly a "long time." You seem to be confusing a lack of media attention with literal isolation.

How would you feel if you were snatched away and no-one knew where you were?
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How I feel or would feel is irrelevant to whether an action satisfies the elements of a crime.

You would want someone to be concerned enough to seek your whereabouts.
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Whether a person has friends is irrelevant to whether deportation is equivalent to enforced disappearance. You're so very determined to make those concepts seem equivalent. And so very determined that Sweden should be the enemy. You're dancing through everything but the facts.
 
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Vixen said:
That is a very silly notion. History tells us that there is a preference in bringing people to justice before topping them.
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Wait, the authorities brought the ships officers to bring them to justice and then promptly "disappeared" them?

What fresh CT hell is this nonsense?
 
abaddon said:
Wait, the authorities brought the ships officers to bring them to justice and then promptly "disappeared" them?

What fresh CT hell is this nonsense?
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Yes, and if that is what has happened it breaches the Rome convention.

Everybody has the right to a proper due legal process and that includes a public hearing where a defence lawyer can state your case. The public can see justice being done.
 
Vixen said:
Yes, and if that is what has happened it breaches the Rome convention.

Everybody has the right to a proper due legal process and that includes a public hearing where a defence lawyer can state your case. The public can see justice being done.
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But your claim is that a sooper sekrit helicopter mission was mounted, no public anything was held and the officers were simply "disappeared". You are also claiming that it was a priority to return the officers for trial.

You cannot have it both ways.
 
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