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Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

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SuburbanTurkey said:
If I'm the doctor the transphobe mother sought out, I treat them as mentally diseased, mislead perverts and encourage them to push their feelings deep, deep down and conform with the expected gender expression. Maybe they kill themselves later on or otherwise have deeply seeded psychological trauma, but I got paid so who gives a crap.
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I'm really getting tired of your non-answers. I asked you for your genuine thoughts on the issue. And instead of engaging, you dodged and threw out yet more toxic vilification.

Are you CAPABLE of having a discussion like a grown up?
 
Emily's Cat said:
So... interpretive anecdotes in a magazine that is well known for being VERY biased is something that you consider "evidence" and you give credence to?

That's some next level confirmation bias you've got there.
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I mean, she no longer has that job, so that much is not in dispute ;)
 
Meanwhile, over in Loudoun County, Virginia:

There's not a whole lot new in this story:

https://loudounnow.com/2021/12/08/schools-transgender-protections-stand-out-in-state/

But it did confirm something I had assumed was true already.

When the story of the rape in the girls' bathroom broke, a frequent reaction was to say that this could not in any way have anything to do with the transgender policy, because that policy was not passed until after the rape.

What the story confirmed was that the bathroom use part of the policy wasn't new. There were other new things in that policy, but the bathroom use policy had been in effect since 2019.

So, this boy (sic) had had sex with a girl on at least two prior occasions in the girls' bathroom. When he met her again, and she said no, he had sex with her anyway against her will. That boy had been using the girls' bathroom for some time.

To me, that sounds bad. That sounds like the kind of thing a typical girl would have a problem with. Maybe I just don't understand kids these days.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
This is not a one-off incident. There is a concerted push in this country to treat trans-affirming care as criminal child abuse.
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Are you sure it's not an anecdote? I mean, it's only a couple of stories, right? Just like the cases of females being raped by males who identify as transwomen in prison, or the cases of lesbians being harassed and coerced into sex with penises, or the cases of females being harassed, doxxed, and threatened with rape and death for daring to hold the opinion that sex matters.

Those are all 'anecdotes' and not worth consideration according to you.
 
Meadmaker said:
Meanwhile, over in Loudoun County, Virginia:

There's not a whole lot new in this story:

https://loudounnow.com/2021/12/08/schools-transgender-protections-stand-out-in-state/

But it did confirm something I had assumed was true already.

When the story of the rape in the girls' bathroom broke, a frequent reaction was to say that this could not in any way have anything to do with the transgender policy, because that policy was not passed until after the rape.

What the story confirmed was that the bathroom use part of the policy wasn't new. There were other new things in that policy, but the bathroom use policy had been in effect since 2019.

So, this boy (sic) had had sex with a girl on at least two prior occasions in the girls' bathroom. When he met her again, and she said no, he had sex with her anyway against her will. That boy had been using the girls' bathroom for some time.

To me, that sounds bad. That sounds like the kind of thing a typical girl would have a problem with. Maybe I just don't understand kids these days.
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Ah the true thing that all the TERFs are afraid of that the trans partner they have been having consensual sex with does not respect the withdrawal of their consent. It totally fit the stranger you repeatedly had consensual sex with attacks you or something.
 
Meadmaker said:
Meanwhile, over in Loudoun County, Virginia:

There's not a whole lot new in this story:

https://loudounnow.com/2021/12/08/schools-transgender-protections-stand-out-in-state/

But it did confirm something I had assumed was true already.

When the story of the rape in the girls' bathroom broke, a frequent reaction was to say that this could not in any way have anything to do with the transgender policy, because that policy was not passed until after the rape.

What the story confirmed was that the bathroom use part of the policy wasn't new. There were other new things in that policy, but the bathroom use policy had been in effect since 2019.

So, this boy (sic) had had sex with a girl on at least two prior occasions in the girls' bathroom. When he met her again, and she said no, he had sex with her anyway against her will. That boy had been using the girls' bathroom for some time.

To me, that sounds bad. That sounds like the kind of thing a typical girl would have a problem with. Maybe I just don't understand kids these days.
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"Using the bathroom" is an odd way to describe what is almost assuredly an unapproved, clandestine meeting for the purposes of having sex.

This story is a complete flop for the trans panic-mongers.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Ah the true thing that all the TERFs are afraid of that the trans partner they have been having consensual sex with does not respect the withdrawal of their consent. It totally fit the stranger you repeatedly had consensual sex with attacks you or something.
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This makes absolutely no sense at all. How about reframing it in an understandable way.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Are you sure it's not an anecdote? I mean, it's only a couple of stories, right? Just like the cases of females being raped by males who identify as transwomen in prison, or the cases of lesbians being harassed and coerced into sex with penises, or the cases of females being harassed, doxxed, and threatened with rape and death for daring to hold the opinion that sex matters.

Those are all 'anecdotes' and not worth consideration according to you.
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Sure, the laws being passed by bigots are far more concerning than anecdotes.

Despite what the TERFs and transphoboes would have us believe, we don't live in bizarro world where marginalized groups, like trans people, are wielding the power. We live in the real world, where the bigots have controls of the levers of power and frequently wield them maliciously.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, the laws being passed by bigots are far more concerning than anecdotes.

Despite what the TERFs and transphoboes would have us believe, we don't live in bizarro world where marginalized groups, like trans people, are wielding the power. We live in the real world, where the bigots have controls of the levers of power and frequently wield them maliciously.
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And where women are being raped by self identified “transwomen”.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
"Using the bathroom" is an odd way to describe what is almost assuredly an unapproved, clandestine meeting for the purposes of having sex.

This story is a complete flop for the trans panic-mongers.
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Pull your head out of the sand, dude. He had been using the girls' bathroom. You know, peeing? Yes. As far as the school was aware, that kid identified as a girl. That came out after the kid's trial. They thought his gender identity was female.

He was using the girls' bathroom, in accordance with existing school policy.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Pull your head out of the sand, dude. He had been using the girls' bathroom. You know, peeing? Yes. As far as the school was aware, that kid identified as a girl. That came out after the kid's trial. They thought his gender identity was female.

He was using the girls' bathroom, in accordance with existing school policy.
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I must be missing something, feel free to quote it.

Still waiting to hear how this was somehow a necessary element for this assault to take place. It's not like schools are A-ok with two cis-girls or two cis-boys meeting up in the bathroom for sexual liaisons.

Seems pretty obvious that these meetings were, by their very nature, arranged in secret. Obviously bathroom policies would be little deterrent regardless of the gender identity of those involved. It's like getting mad that someone jaywalked on the way to rob a bank, it makes no sense.

This whole thing was a dud because the reactionaries were hoping for some "stranger danger" trans menace, but the reality turned out to be far more routine. A person committed a rape within the context of a pre-existing relationship, which is a pretty common fact pattern for sex crimes. Still rape, still bad, but not exactly red meat for the "bathroom predator" crowd.

A trans (maybe?) person committed a crime. Those with an axe to grind will continue to insist this isn't because an individual is a criminal, but that extending trans people rights is to blame.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Pull your head out of the sand, dude. He had been using the girls' bathroom. You know, peeing? Yes. As far as the school was aware, that kid identified as a girl. That came out after the kid's trial. They thought his gender identity was female.

He was using the girls' bathroom, in accordance with existing school policy.
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No fairly sure it is against school policy for students to have sex on campus regardless of their gender. That it involved a trans girl and a bathroom is as close at it gets to the narative of predetors pretending to be trans to attack the girls they agreed to meet their for sex or something.

It like using marital rape to justify the fear of stranger rape. Most rape is friends and relatives by far after all.
 
ponderingturtle said:
. That it involved a trans girl and a bathroom is as close at it gets to the narative of predetors pretending to be trans to attack the girls they agreed to meet their for sex or something.
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Sorry, are you saying that predators pretending to be trans to attack women doesn't happen?
 
Manger Douse said:
Sorry, are you saying that predators pretending to be trans to attack women doesn't happen?
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The data shows that trans bathroom panic is largely an invented problem:

Gender Identity Nondiscrimination Laws in Public Accommodations: a Review of Evidence Regarding Safety and Privacy in Public Restrooms, Locker Rooms, and Changing Rooms
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This study provides evidence that fears of increased safety and privacy violations as a result of nondiscrimination laws are not empirically grounded.
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https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13178-018-0335-z

You may notice that the entirety of this trans bathroom panic is rooted in salacious anecdotes (if not outright fabrications) because the empirical data to support such a position simply does not exist.

meanwhile, the damage done by these exclusive policies are very well understood and measured.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
I must be missing something, feel free to quote it.

Still waiting to hear how this was somehow a necessary element for this assault to take place. It's not like schools are A-ok with two cis-girls or two cis-boys meeting up in the bathroom for sexual liaisons.

Seems pretty obvious that these meetings were, by their very nature, arranged in secret. Obviously bathroom policies would be little deterrent regardless of the gender identity of those involved. It's like getting mad that someone jaywalked on the way to rob a bank, it makes no sense.

This whole thing was a dud because the reactionaries were hoping for some "stranger danger" trans menace, but the reality turned out to be far more routine. A person committed a rape within the context of a pre-existing relationship, which is a pretty common fact pattern for sex crimes. Still rape, still bad, but not exactly red meat for the "bathroom predator" crowd.

A trans (maybe?) person committed a crime. Those with an axe to grind will continue to insist this isn't because an individual is a criminal, but that extending trans people rights is to blame.
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Everyone understands that all assaults can't be prevented. But once again I must remind you that these "routine" events also included a second assault after the perpetrator was quietly returned to public school in the same district with no warnings to the staff or precautions taken to protect the other students, and after the father of the first victim was dragged out of a public meeting and over-prosecuted on normally minor charges when he attempted to contradict the district officials' blanket denial that any assault had taken place.

Those the parts that the Georgia voters (who had been leaning more and more Democratic prior to that, too bad that's over now) very much don't want to become "routine."
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
The data shows that trans bathroom panic is largely an invented problem:





https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13178-018-0335-z

You may notice that the entirety of this trans bathroom panic is rooted in salacious anecdotes (if not outright fabrications) because the empirical data to support such a position simply does not exist.

meanwhile, the damage done by these exclusive policies are very well understood and measured.
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I can't actually see that study, but didn't you say a similar thing about a study that actually showed a .6% increase in sexual assault?
 
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