Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

[Upchurch]

Would any of our resident "it wasn't a coup attempt" promoters like to tell me what he meant by that if not putting Trump back into office?

Does it matter? IMHO, it's better at this point to keep to the evidence and try to understand what was happening than to worry about credulous beliefs.

 

[Thermal]

Thermal's argument seems to be a classic not seeing the forest for the trees. He attacks each little tree as being insignificant. But he ignores the forest they create.

So I keep hearing. Try reading with the zipper open. You know, to have an open mind.

I think what actually happened was worse, and more foreboding, than a coup attempt. Don't listen to the parrots, they only understand binary argumentation. Think about what I posted and why I think it is worse news. It takes less time to think about it than it took you to type that post.

 

[Lurch]

Thermal would seem to posit that a hundred people talking about a thing could not possibly be talking about that thing because all are not using precisely the same words in the same sequence.

 

[Thermal]

Lurch would seem to be trying his hand at mind reading again rather than post reading.

I believe we went through this before, and you went radio silence.

 

[Delvo]

But then, each group came up with their own plan to do that, ranging from the lookie-loos who were wondering idly around the building, to groups like the one in this recording who had more group coordination and better defined goals.

It's a reënactment of Bastille Day by people whose awareness of what happened at the Bastille and its results consists of the "the peasants went inside, and then the government was gone" kind of impression you get from recalling decades later a page of a fourth-grade Social Studies book where the picture of the painting took up about half as much of the page as the associated text. Different reënactors came up with their own ways to fill in the blanks.

 

[jimbob]

Begs the question that there was an end goal. A Trump-leg-humping rabid dog doesn't really have goals. Any other questions?

Well

'Get them ready now': Matt Gaetz and Steve Bannon discuss plan to take over government with 'shock troops'

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) on Thursday talked with conservative broadcaster Steve Bannon about a plan to use "4,000 shock troops" to take over the jobs of federal government employees.

Bannon has previously said that the so-called "shock troops" need to be prepared prior to Republican control of the executive branch.

"People didn't like that Donald Trump raised his voice but sometimes you've got to raise your voice to raise a ruckus and to raise an army of patriots who love this country and will fight for her," Gaetz said on Bannon's War Room program. "We're going to operationalize the performance to go right after the people who are imposing the vaccine mandates, who are enriching themselves and who are selling out the country."

"Understand, this is a theory of governing," Bannon agreed. "It's fresh and it's new. This is Trumpism in power. That's when we went to the 4,000 shock troops we have to have that's going to man the government. Get them ready now. Right? We're going to hit the beach with the landing teams and the beachhead teams and all that nomenclature they use when President Trump wins in 2024 -- or before."

 

[johnny karate]

Lurch would seem to be trying his hand at mind reading again rather than post reading.

Yes, let's do some post reading.

Here's you, getting in wrong while it was happening:

Let's watch, shall we, as the Dildo Storm is swept into inconsequence by Capitol Security.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13349108#post13349108

Here's you getting it wrong, the day after:

So. During the *coup attempt* yesterday, I thought the Dildo Storm would prance around for a while and then be shown the door by the boys with guns, then back to business with no attempt to seize power. It seems that the Dildo Storm *checks notes* also took selfies and stole an envelope from Speaker Pelosi's desk, then we're shown the door by the boys with guns, then back to business with no attempt to seize power. Man, was I ever off base.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13351245&highlight=coup#post13351245

Here's you getting it wrong, two days ago:

What did they do? Trashed the joint. Then what? Went home, and Congress went back to work. The mob was not shot or arrested. They were not encumbered at all, and many of the silly **** wits still aren't, and roamed the streets all year.

Very illuminating, this "post reading".

 

[a_unique_person]

Well

Anyone who uses the word "operationalize" should be jailed.

 

[Delvo]

That's just, like, your thoughtification, man.

 

[eerok]

Gaetz is prone to irrationalizations.

 

[Stacyhs]

Nope, not a coup attempt at all headed by the Trump admin as this text from Jim Jordan, a sitting member of Congress, sent to Mark Meadows proves:

""On January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence, as President of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all -- in accordance with guidance from founding father Alexander Hamilton and judicial precedence. 'No legislative act,' wrote Alexander Hamilton in Federalist No. 78, 'contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.' The court in Hubbard v. Lowe reinforced this truth: 'That an unconstitutional statute is not a law at all is a proposition no longer open to discussion.' 226 F. 135, 137 (SDNY 1915), appeal dismissed, 242 U.S. 654 (1916). Following this rationale, an unconstitutionally appointed elector, like an unconstitutionally enacted statute, is no elector at all."

Promoting not counting the electoral votes Pence thinks are 'unconstitutional' for some reason is no attempt at overturning the election at all.

 

[plague311]

Nope, not a coup attempt at all headed by the Trump admin as this text from Jim Jordan, a sitting member of Congress, sent to Mark Meadows proves:

""On January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence, as President of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all -- in accordance with guidance from founding father Alexander Hamilton and judicial precedence. 'No legislative act,' wrote Alexander Hamilton in Federalist No. 78, 'contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.' The court in Hubbard v. Lowe reinforced this truth: 'That an unconstitutional statute is not a law at all is a proposition no longer open to discussion.' 226 F. 135, 137 (SDNY 1915), appeal dismissed, 242 U.S. 654 (1916). Following this rationale, an unconstitutionally appointed elector, like an unconstitutionally enacted statute, is no elector at all."

Promoting not counting the electoral votes Pence thinks are 'unconstitutional' for some reason is no attempt at overturning the election at all.

Text as in, text message? That's a long ass text for sure.

 

[stanfr]

Nope, not a coup attempt at all headed by the Trump admin as this text from Jim Jordan, a sitting member of Congress, sent to Mark Meadows proves:

""On January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence, as President of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all -- in accordance with guidance from founding father Alexander Hamilton and judicial precedence. 'No legislative act,' wrote Alexander Hamilton in Federalist No. 78, 'contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.' The court in Hubbard v. Lowe reinforced this truth: 'That an unconstitutional statute is not a law at all is a proposition no longer open to discussion.' 226 F. 135, 137 (SDNY 1915), appeal dismissed, 242 U.S. 654 (1916). Following this rationale, an unconstitutionally appointed elector, like an unconstitutionally enacted statute, is no elector at all."

Promoting not counting the electoral votes Pence thinks are 'unconstitutional' for some reason is no attempt at overturning the election at all.

After Jordan reluctantly admitted it was his text (once he realized it was already widely being attributed to him) he first qualified it by claiming he was quoting someone else, then whined that the unbolded portion should have been read too, since that part fully exonerates him, or so he believes. The irony is that the whole text simply implicates him more completely, there really is no other way to interpret it other than that he was urging a VP to commit a crime.

 

[eerok]

One can only hope that all these bits and pieces finally cohere into something that approximates an accounting for the crimes committed by Trump and his minions in the aftermath of the 2020 election.

Legal Group Files Bar Complaint Against John Eastman for ‘Carefully Orchestrated’ Effort to ‘Overturn the Results’ of the 2020 Election (lawandcrime.com)

A legal group filed a bar complaint against conservative attorney John Eastman on Thursday claiming he violated legal ethics rules while serving as an attorney for former President Donald Trump.

The complaint largely focuses on what it terms Eastman’s “lobbying” then-Vice President Mike Pence “to disregard the electoral votes cast in six states that had voted for” ultimate President Joe Biden.

 

[Lurch]

That the Mango Menace, almost a year after his playing at being a Putschist, is right now a viable candidate to get his grubby hooks into the White House again, counts as a worrisome, potentially black stain against the US Justice system. If Garland et al don't get their **** together soon, the writing could be on the wall for this grand American experiment.

As soon as the calendar ticks over into 2022, you just know the GOP is going to be screeching about "political witch hunts in an election year!" Blimey, with the sacred shield of the "election year" there's hardly an opportunity to do anything meaningful. Politicians working toward re-election as the main job really is the operating principle. I mean, the 2024 race was already lining up and occupying time and attention practically upon Biden's swearing in.

I hope it's only impatience on my part which brings on bouts of my Moaning Mona persona. (Ooh. Part alliteration with a rhyme; gotta file that one away.)

 

[Thermal]

Nope, not a coup attempt at all headed by the Trump admin as this text from Jim Jordan, a sitting member of Congress, sent to Mark Meadows proves:

""On January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence, as President of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all -- in accordance with guidance from founding father Alexander Hamilton and judicial precedence. 'No legislative act,' wrote Alexander Hamilton in Federalist No. 78, 'contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.' The court in Hubbard v. Lowe reinforced this truth: 'That an unconstitutional statute is not a law at all is a proposition no longer open to discussion.' 226 F. 135, 137 (SDNY 1915), appeal dismissed, 242 U.S. 654 (1916). Following this rationale, an unconstitutionally appointed elector, like an unconstitutionally enacted statute, is no elector at all."

Promoting not counting the electoral votes Pence thinks are 'unconstitutional' for some reason is no attempt at overturning the election at all.

This is the part that dazzles me. You understand that asking/blustering/suggesting different ways of flipping the election is not a coup by definition, right?

A coup is seizing or wresting power. It's not a request. It's not empty threats. It's not even riling up the dogs and siccing them on the Capitol. It is the *act* of actually seizing it, attempted or otherwise, and competently or not. All the unAmerican things the Republicans did never rose to the level of actual *seizure*. That's all we have been arguing about.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

This is the part that dazzles me. You understand that asking/blustering/suggesting different ways of flipping the election is not a coup by definition, right?

A coup is seizing or wresting power. It's not a request. It's not empty threats. It's not even riling up the dogs and siccing them on the Capitol. It is the *act* of actually seizing it, attempted or otherwise, and competently or not. All the unAmerican things the Republicans did never rose to the level of actual *seizure*. That's all we have been arguing about.

Sounds like an attempted coup that failed because the Trump didn't have the right people on board to make it happen.

Lots of failed coups fail for this reason. This one failed in its infancy because Trump et al were especially incompetent and flying by the seats of their pants. The next coup attempt will be better planned.

 

[Stacyhs]

Nope, not a coup attempt at all headed by the Trump admin as this text from Jim Jordan, a sitting member of Congress, sent to Mark Meadows proves:

""On January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence, as President of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all -- in accordance with guidance from founding father Alexander Hamilton and judicial precedence. 'No legislative act,' wrote Alexander Hamilton in Federalist No. 78, 'contrary to the Constitution, can be valid.' The court in Hubbard v. Lowe reinforced this truth: 'That an unconstitutional statute is not a law at all is a proposition no longer open to discussion.' 226 F. 135, 137 (SDNY 1915), appeal dismissed, 242 U.S. 654 (1916). Following this rationale, an unconstitutionally appointed elector, like an unconstitutionally enacted statute, is no elector at all."

Promoting not counting the electoral votes Pence thinks are 'unconstitutional' for some reason is no attempt at overturning the election at all.

This is the part that dazzles me. You understand that asking/blustering/suggesting different ways of flipping the election is not a coup by definition, right?

A coup is seizing or wresting power. It's not a request. It's not empty threats. It's not even riling up the dogs and siccing them on the Capitol. It is the *act* of actually seizing it, attempted or otherwise, and competently or not. All the unAmerican things the Republicans did never rose to the level of actual *seizure*. That's all we have been arguing about.

What part of the word "attempt" do you not understand? Are you really going...Jesus..how many pages back?...to start arguing about what a 'coup' is? Just because Pence didn't do it, doesn't mean they weren't serious about getting him to do it. Stop with the "It wasn't successful so that means it wasn't really an attempt at all" crap.

"A coup d'état, usually shortened to coup, is a seizure and removal of a government and its powers. Typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a political faction, military, or a dictator."

Was it an attempt to remove Joe Biden and Kamala Harris from the presidency and vice-presidency by nullifying the election? YES

Would it have been unconstitutional for Pence to "call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all"? YES

Was this attempt being promoted and sanctioned by a political faction? YES

Stop peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining.

 

[Thermal]

Sounds like an attempted coup that failed because the Trump didn't have the right people on board to make it happen.

Lots of failed coups fail for this reason. This one failed in its infancy because Trump et al were especially incompetent and flying by the seats of their pants. The next coup attempt will be better planned.

By the time you go from "coup" to "incompetent attempted coup that never got off the ground because there was no one to make it happen", doesn't it make a little more sense to just stop trying to label it what it wasn't? Seems like a waste of perfectly good qualifiers.

 

[Stacyhs]

By the time you go from "coup" to "incompetent attempted coup that never got off the ground because there was no one to make it happen", doesn't it make a little more sense to just stop trying to label it what it wasn't? Seems like a waste of perfectly good qualifiers.

Just stop.