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Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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Thermal, I can sympathize with you -- really. The thought that the USA, a country that has existed with the same constitution longer than any other, and has seen an unbroken succession of peaceful and lawful transfers of authority, should be subject to an attempted seizure of power, a violent coup in the style of the worst and shabbiest nations, is genuinely horrifying and, in your case, obviously shocking. I certainly needed some days to assimilate the idea; perhaps I was in shock; perhaps I denied it.

This clumsy attack on the Constitution failed, as everything fails when put in the hands of our home-grown mussolini. Good. I think that most of us have recovered from our fright and shock. May I think that you will too?
 
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Thermal said:
Actually, this is right. But it's not everyone; it's just the mindless parroting politically polarized posters in USA Politics. There's a reason why we don't see most of you guys in other parts of the forum in much force. It's real stuff out there. Not exactly your forte.
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Imagine characterizing your posts on a discussion forum about such topics as whether Cornhole is a sport as "real stuff", like a Vietnam vet character in some direct-to-video Rambo knock-off, and expecting anyone to ever take you seriously again.
 
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thaiboxerken said:
I wonder why Pence took the coup attempt seriously. If they weren't really attempting a coup, Pence didn't have to flee. They were just kidding about hanging him, right?
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An army of trolls will be along any moment to explain to us why pointing out, or indeed even noticing, such contradictions just means we are being dramatic hyperbolic strawmen.
 
"I don't care about stuff that it's perfectly logical to care about" is such a weird flex and an even weirder hill to die defending to this degree.
 
You know what I just solved this.

We take Pence and every Republican member of Congress. And we take all the arrested people who were at the Capitol on the 6th screaming about hanging Pence and stopping the steal and all the other Qanon crap.

"Mr. Pence, Republican Members of Congress. You have two choices. Either we can put all of you together in a locked room with no windows, cameras or witnesses which shouldn't be a problem if these people were just protestors or rowdy tourists... or you can admit it's a Coup. Your choice."
 
The plans don't count because no action was taken on them, and the numerous physical actions that were taken don't count because there was no plan behind them.
 
Delvo said:
The plans don't count because no action was taken on them, and the numerous physical actions that were taken don't count because there was no plan behind them.
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That's the reasoning I'm seeing from the few "it's not a coup attempt" posts here.

" If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...look, a fish sandwich! "
 
Delvo said:
The plans don't count because no action was taken on them, and the numerous physical actions that were taken don't count because there was no plan behind them.
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"And just ignore the t-shirts we had printed up."
 
Delvo said:
The plans don't count because no action was taken on them, and the numerous physical actions that were taken don't count because there was no plan behind them.
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Thanks for putting your finger on it succinctly.
 
I have not finished the audio file, but the first part of it outlines this group's plan. Their people, or "patriots", were forcibly entering the capitol with the intention of placing Pence, Pelosi, and the generic "Them" under citizens arrest using the authority of "We The People". It is not clear to me if they are referring to the preamble of the US Constitution or some organization or other law. At least one of the speakers was cautioning the Patriots to refrain from using violence, if possible, but the emphasis is to stop the certification of the vote at all costs.

During the attack, there are several voices. Some are clearly at home providing updates from what they see on TV, social media, and right-wing information sources. Some sound like they are at or in the capitol providing on-the-ground information. Through the part I listened to, getting ahold of Pence was the primary goal. It was also clear that his well being wasn't a major concern.

ETA: Oh, and I should mention that their perspective and sources were seriously skewed. At one point, some declares that there are millions of people storming the Capitol. Another person sets the number at 4 million. They were also relaying right-wing reports of Antifa in the crowd breaking windows.
 
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I'm wondering if this was something of a distributed coup attempt. The goal was defined by Trump &Co. and was pretty well understood by everyone: Stop the certification and you stop the steal. But then, each group came up with their own plan to do that, ranging from the lookie-loos who were wondering idly around the building, to groups like the one in this recording who had more group coordination and better defined goals.
 
The main guy talking in the video said this:

"This is a civilian exercise of civilian power to alter and abolish this ******* and tyrannical, treasonous government POS and drain this ******* swamp."

Would any of our resident "it wasn't a coup attempt" promoters like to tell me what he meant by that if not putting Trump back into office?
 
Stacyhs said:
The main guy talking in the video said this:

"This is a civilian exercise of civilian power to alter and abolish this ******* and tyrannical, treasonous government POS and drain this ******* swamp."

Would any of our resident "it wasn't a coup attempt" promoters like to tell me what he meant by that if not putting Trump back into office?
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Why, he was merely upset about the state of the Capitol building's bathrooms.
 
Stacyhs said:
The main guy talking in the video said this:

"This is a civilian exercise of civilian power to alter and abolish this ******* and tyrannical, treasonous government POS and drain this ******* swamp."

Would any of our resident "it wasn't a coup attempt" promoters like to tell me what he meant by that if not putting Trump back into office?
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Delvo came up with the one-size-fits-all answer:
Delvo said:
The plans don't count because no action was taken on them, and the numerous physical actions that were taken don't count because there was no plan behind them.
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The Great Zaganza said:
https://soundcloud.com/user-403747081/jessica-watkins-on-stop-the-steal-j6-zello-channel-unedited

It contains gems like "they got the gallows - it's time to use them".
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Thanks, appreciated. This thing is over two hours long, though. I've listened to the first half. Nothing much of interest yet. Certainly nothing about gallows. It sounds like a sports commentary. Most of the speakers seem not to be anywhere near what is happening. One says he is 12 hours away.

There's one thing of value I got so far- these guys are stone dumb. I was under the impression that the oath keepers were a disciplined sort of paramilitary organization, presumably comprised of sociopaths. The speakers on the audio are a bunch of brainless Bubbas who speak in empty slogans, peppered with the occasional "it's on like Donkey Kong" and "Made in USA, **** yeah!"

Nothing much to indicate a formal plan, like hitting checkpoints or restating mission objectives. More along the lines of winging it. The main speaker, who seems to have some kind of authority, says that they are on NAP (non-aggression principle) and frequently repeats that they are going to make a "legal citizen's arrest". This is said often enough that I take it to be pretty much what their plan was. A good chunk around the one hour mark was the narrator chiming slogans over CNN broadcasting.

The Great Zaganza: the hour I spent listening thus far was not exactly fruitful. Is there something to look forward to in the second half? Something that might shine some light on their plans or objectives, or pretty much more of the same?
 
Thermal's argument seems to be a classic not seeing the forest for the trees. He attacks each little tree as being insignificant. But he ignores the forest they create.
 
ZiprHead said:
Thermal's argument seems to be a classic not seeing the forest for the trees. He attacks each little tree as being insignificant. But he ignores the forest they create.
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That’s because without a plan it’s not a forest, it’s just a bunch of trees wandering around.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
This was addressed to Thermal:

Having read the thread, I expect Thermal will dismiss my opinions because I'm a "new guy" who must be uninformed about the wider world because he/she doesn't see me "in other parts of the forum in much force".

But it seems to me that a lot of what I quote below is the quality of argument I'd expect to see from someone who, after making it through elementary school with flying colors, developed a taste for crayons.
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For some of us, that's actually our normal speech. You know, flippant and chop-busting. Maybe it doesn't come across well online. Actually you make a fair point though. Was in a bad mood last night, after listening to political parroting from others for hours IRL. Prob came off a little sharper than intended.

To any I was rude to: my bad, and my apologies.
 
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