Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

[The Great Zaganza]

Thermal, have you heard the radio transmissions of the Oathkeepers at the Capitol that day?
You live a very sheltered existence if you think they were not serious when they said they were going to use those gallows.

 

[tyr_13]

Great. If you have anything new to add, or even interesting, I'm all ears. If "you're wrongity-wrong-wrong" is about the limit, may I suggest some Dr. Seuss?

Oh, and "they tried to hang him". God, you are so precious to think that cheesy gallows prop was real.

Oh it isn't new, but this shows how completely bankrupt and dishonest your arguments are.

You're ignoring that they acted now by claiming the action wouldn't have been effective, which of course means they did act, and the handwave you employ is just moronic. You're going to pretend you've 'answered the question' but it's not a valid answer.

'Sure they went there to use violence in furtherance of a coup attempt, but they couldn't have hanged him because I don't think the gallows would have worked.' I truly wish you were trolling us here, but I fully believe you're convinced of the strength of this argument.

I can just see you being confronted by a mob of people with weapons and rope, them chanting about how they want to hang you and having just fought through police to get there, but smugly observing how safe you are from hanging because they haven't even built gallows.

This should go without saying, and maybe you need told because Dr. Seuss never really fleshed this out in any of his books, but you don't even need gallows to hang someone. Even if you did, they still could have killed people. And of course just the threat of violence is an actually bloody act to get the coup back on plan.

You will never be ready to identify actual threats if your rationalizations are even partly convincing to you.

 

[Thermal]

Thermal, have you heard the radio transmissions of the Oathkeepers at the Capitol that day?
You live a very sheltered existence if you think they were not serious when they said they were going to use those gallows.

I have not. I tried googling them and came up with nothing relating to the oath keepers and gallows or hanging anyone, except one of them texting that they already had their neck in a noose, referring to themselves.. Might I trouble you for a link?

 

[Pixel42]

Liz Cheney reads some of the texts that were sent on 6th Jan by members of Congress, Fox hosts and his own son, begging Trump to call off the mob he had unleashed on the Capitol.

 

[dirtywick]

The thing is, the communications obtained from Meadows rightfully should only be looked at as individual unrelated communications while ignoring any greater context to really understand that there clearly wasn't any real credible effort to overturn the election.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I have not. I tried googling them and came up with nothing relating to the oath keepers and gallows or hanging anyone, except one of them texting that they already had their neck in a noose, referring to themselves.. Might I trouble you for a link?

https://soundcloud.com/user-403747081/jessica-watkins-on-stop-the-steal-j6-zello-channel-unedited

It contains gems like "they got the gallows - it's time to use them".

 

[abaddon]

Ya know, there's a school.of thought that recommends one be critical of anything they read. Cray-cray, I know.

Really? When we read your posts, we should be critical?

Seems you don't like that much. Seems you want everyone to be uncritical of your posts.

Why is that?

 

[eerok]

The most meaningful question remaining is, when will the GOP make another coup attempt? They're preparing the groundwork as we speak, but will they try something fancy in 2022 or wait until 2024? I think there's no doubt that Trump will run in 2024 because of his pathological ego and thirst for revenge. It will not be pretty.

 

[varwoche]

In summary, the actions include:

• 
  Extort Ukraine for election assistance, and threaten whistle-blower with death
• Illegally threaten Raffensperger lest he "find 11,780 votes"
• Threaten the lives of election workers and their family members
• Promote election fraud
• Incite a mob of dangerous lunatics to a violent insurrection
• Violent insurrection that disrupts election

I ommited an inaction: Sit by and watch the insurrection on TV.

We'll learn more in coming weeks.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Answer your own question. What did they do? Trashed the joint. Then what? Went home, and Congress went back to work. The mob was not shot or arrested. They were not encumbered at all, and many of the silly **** wits still aren't, and roamed the streets all year.

Goals have steps taken to achieve them. A football team wants to get the ball across the goal line. If they just attack the other team on the bench, that does not accomplish, or even take steps towards, that goal. It's just mayhem, because that's what violent mobs do.

I don't believe that anyone here is so stupid as to not understand what I am saying. What the J6ers did should have them locked up for years, and no pleas accepted. They interfered with our electoral process, and trashed the Seat of Democracy. That's unforgivable, and profoundly unAmerican. But it's not a coup, simply by definition.

But attacking that team on the bench quite possibly keeps them from achieving their goal of scoring and winning. It disrupts the game, part of the larger goal of preventing a certain outcome.

I toss a few pigeons at your chess game. They don’t need to know how to play.

 

[Upchurch]

In summary, the actions include:

• 
  Extort Ukraine for election assistance, and threaten whistle-blower with death
• Illegally threaten Raffensperger lest he "find 11,780 votes"
• Threaten the lives of election workers and their family members
• Promote election fraud
• Incite a mob of dangerous lunatics to a violent insurrection
• Violent insurrection that disrupts election

I ommited an inaction: Sit by and watch the insurrection on TV.

We'll learn more in coming weeks.

I feel like you could break “Promote election fraud” into a half dozen bullet points.

 

[varwoche]

Answer your own question. What did they do? Trashed the joint...

Tell that to the 140 Capital Police who were injured.

Another example of you minimizing what took place.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Seems damning as hell, doesn't it? Did you bother to read about it? I did.

Step one was for Congress to be briefed on foreign interference in the election.

Let's stop there: how did that briefing go? If the answer is "mumble mumble POWERPOINT MAN!", then this powerpoint was a napkin sketch spitballing that no one even passed around, much less acted on. The Willard crew was not even cut in on it, btw, according to the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/10/trump-powerpoint-mark-meadows-capitol-attack

Did you miss the entire reason for the power point presentation? It was to get Trump the Oval Office again.

A plan to overthrow the election is still a plan to overthrow the election no matter how poor that plan is.

 

[thaiboxerken]

And of course, things not going according to plan is not the same thing as not having one and, thus, showing intent to stage a coup. In the same article Thermal posted:

​

The plan doesn't work without Pence's cooperation, so Trump & Co had to scramble to work around Pence to disrupt the certification.

So, we have a Plan A and an apparent Plan B. We have a violent attack on a government body and building. We have seizure of Senate floor and attempted seizure of the House floor. We have disrupted and delayed certification of the election (which are steps toward the primary goal).

What part are we missing?

You forget this part:

If it didn't work, it didn't count.

That's the Thermal analysis.

 

[Paul2]

Thermal, have you heard the radio transmissions of the Oathkeepers at the Capitol that day?
You live a very sheltered existence if you think they were not serious when they said they were going to use those gallows.

Do you have a link to that (audio or transcription)?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Do you have a link to that (audio or transcription)?

here

https://soundcloud.com/user-403747081/jessica-watkins-on-stop-the-steal-j6-zello-channel-unedited

It contains gems like "they got the gallows - it's time to use them".

 

[W.D.Clinger]

This was addressed to Thermal:

Really? When we read your posts, we should be critical?

Seems you don't like that much. Seems you want everyone to be uncritical of your posts.

Why is that?

Having read the thread, I expect Thermal will dismiss my opinions because I'm a "new guy" who must be uninformed about the wider world because he/she doesn't see me "in other parts of the forum in much force".

But it seems to me that a lot of what I quote below is the quality of argument I'd expect to see from someone who, after making it through elementary school with flying colors, developed a taste for crayons.

Seems damning as hell, doesn't it? Did you bother to read about it? I did....

eta: btw, google ad hominem when you get the chance. Do you dispute my paraphrasing of The Guardian's reporting?

Whadaya think, scooter? Still think the coup was upon us? If so, you're pretty much alone in that fantasy. Even posters here have backpedaled it to an "incompetent attempted coup".

And we descend again into the depths of stupid.

You duck anything requiring you to pony up. So let's go. Pony up.

C'mon Upchurch! Hey Johnny karate! Show those knuckleheads in DC how evidence works.

Talk to a kindergarten teacher about the difference between a lot of nitwits talking about different plans, none of which got off the chit-chat stage, and attempting to execute any one of them. Ask her to use crayons.

Just got off the phone with her. She said anyone who thinks that the planning leading up to January 6th wasn't part of an attempted coup will probably eat the crayons she would use to show them they're wrong.

Made it through elementary school with flying colors.

Were seriously going to drop the discourse this low? Fine....

Care to randomly change the subject yet again? Seems to entertain you to no end.

But it's not everyone; it's just the mindless parroting politically polarized posters in USA Politics. There's a reason why we don't see most of you guys in other parts of the forum in much force. It's real stuff out there. Not exactly your forte.

One more time for the slow kids in the back:

Great. If you have anything new to add, or even interesting, I'm all ears. If "you're wrongity-wrong-wrong" is about the limit, may I suggest some Dr. Seuss?

Oh, and "they tried to hang him". God, you are so precious to think that cheesy gallows prop was real.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I wonder why Pence took the coup attempt seriously. If they weren't really attempting a coup, Pence didn't have to flee. They were just kidding about hanging him, right?

 

[stanfr]

The most meaningful question remaining is, when will the GOP make another coup attempt? They're preparing the groundwork as we speak, but will they try something fancy in 2022 or wait until 2024? I think there's no doubt that Trump will run in 2024 because of his pathological ego and thirst for revenge. It will not be pretty.

It certainly won't...even more so given the following:

Liz Cheney reads some of the texts that were sent on 6th Jan by members of Congress, Fox hosts and his own son, begging Trump to call off the mob he had unleashed on the Capitol.

That sums up the hypocrisy that is Trumpism, and why it is so dangerous. An entire thread is worthy of this. The fact that even Jr pleaded with his dad, along with the core of Trump's Fox bullhorn and key lawmakers, reveals the depth of the hypocrisy. And it will come to a head in 2024 if not sooner, because a litmus test will be put to the electorate--are your values worth sacrificing democracy to the Trumpist religion? On it's face, it doesn't seem that whether you support Trump or not should rise to the level of something like do you support slavery or not, but when it's backed by the value system that the right wing claims is being threatened, it could be just as divisive, and potentially violent.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Great. If you have anything new to add, or even interesting, I'm all ears. If "you're wrongity-wrong-wrong" is about the limit, may I suggest some Dr. Seuss?

Oh, and "they tried to hang him". God, you are so precious to think that cheesy gallows prop was real.