Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

[LondonJohn]

I see - well, if the school board knew but didn't choose to tell the police that yes, Scot Smiths daughter had been raped by a trans student as he claimed but instead let the police (and posters in this forum) believe Smith was just some anti-trans weirdo and this is what got him the jail time, then yes, I would consider that to be on the say-so of the school board. I grant there's a bit IF there

No. The police did not arrest - and would not have arrested - this man purely on the basis that he was "just some anti-trans weirdo". Has your agenda clouded your judgement this much? Really?

The police arrested him because - and only because - he was, in their view, getting so agitated and threatening that things may very well have escalated quickly into physical violence.


And incidentally (though it's not at all relevant to what actually happened here) at what point - in your opinion - should the school board have informed the police about the background to this man's anger? Should they have provided a prior briefing to the police that this guy might show up, and the reason why he might be angry? Should they have adjourned their meeting in mid-session to tell the police the background to this man's anger? In what way - in your opinion - would the school board have "let the police believe" that this man was "just some anti-trans weirdo"?

 

[gnome]

I'm not following your question, can you rephrase?

You seem to be concerned that people antagonizing others because their dating pool isn't inclusive enough will become a significant concern. My point is to ask if this happened when hostility to interracial marriage eased. If it's a slippery slope I would think we'd be further along it when it comes to race.

Short version "people have complained" is not significant when any public figure will receive just about any kind of complaint anyone can think of, from rational to loopy. Does it prove anything about any one issue?

 

[Emily's Cat]

You've completely misunderstood/misrepresented what I've been saying on this. Well done!

If I have misunderstood, please take a moment to clarify.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Why the hell do you think I have the responsibility of being some sort of spokesman on these issues? You have no right whatsoever to want me to speak out on anything. Anything.

You seem to have elected yourself spokesperson on trans issues. You take umbrage when it is suggested that you give no ***** about females.

You don't have any obligation to speak out against the abuse of females, certainly. Just don't be surprised when your lack of care for females is noted.

My god, the pomposity.

ROFL, OMG! Have you met you?

(Not to mention the fact that - perhaps you missed it among the self-righteous haze - I did indeed give my (negative) opinion on these people and their actions. Not that I had any obligation at all to do so, though.)

Your "negative" opinion was that they weren't doing THEIR cause any good. Nothing at all about making rapey, assaulty threats to females assembled to discuss violence against females. Hell, you didn't even bother to express any sentiment that it might be reasonably seen as objectionable behavior!

 

[Emily's Cat]

You seem to be concerned that people antagonizing others because their dating pool isn't inclusive enough will become a significant concern. My point is to ask if this happened when hostility to interracial marriage eased. If it's a slippery slope I would think we'd be further along it when it comes to race.

Hmm. I don't see how skin color and sexual orientation are interchangeable. Are you suggesting that gay people should force themselves to be open to straight relationships if straight people want them?

Interracial dating and marriages were largely a case of those individuals ignoring prior convention and having relationships with people that they themselves selected. They weren't being told that if they didn't date someone of a different race they were racists, and that if they didn't want to be a racist they should force themselves to date other races.

Short version "people have complained" is not significant when any public figure will receive just about any kind of complaint anyone can think of, from rational to loopy. Does it prove anything about any one issue?

Google "The Cotton Ceiling" and let me know what you think.

 

[Elaedith]

You seem to be concerned that people antagonizing others because their dating pool isn't inclusive enough will become a significant concern. My point is to ask if this happened when hostility to interracial marriage eased. If it's a slippery slope I would think we'd be further along it when it comes to race.

Short version "people have complained" is not significant when any public figure will receive just about any kind of complaint anyone can think of, from rational to loopy. Does it prove anything about any one issue?

It's rather more complex than just individuals being annoyed that other people's dating pools are not inclusive. It's part of the ideology that gender identity must completely replace biological sex in every context. This belief system is challenged by being confronted with evidence that many people are, in fact, attracted to a sex or sexes and not to 'genders'. The only way to reconcile this with the ideology is to claim that people have a 'fetish' for particular genitals. The hostility may in some cases be due to narcissism, but there is also the need to suppress a threat to an irrational fundamentalist belief system that can only be maintained by demanding constant external validation. That is where a lot of the vitriol comes from.

 

[p0lka]

Ah, I knew there was a reason I should hang around gay forums!

My dearly departed gay mate (as in friend, not my type at all) used to gag when the word vagina was mentioned, and never said or typed it in his life. A phrase of his will stick in my memory to the day I die: "I don't know how you can think of even getting close to one of those disgusting things, let alone touch it!" He's lucky he's dead - he'd be the biggest TERF on the planet.


Haha! Nice.

Re the highlighted, that's a weird reaction to the mention of genitals?

I can look at a cock or a vagina and am fine?
Are you sure they didn't have previous issues as that's not a typical reaction?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Re the highlighted, that's a weird reaction to the mention of genitals?

I can look at a cock or a vagina and am fine?
Are you sure they didn't have previous issues as that's not a typical reaction?

Varies from person to person. I know straight females who are completely grossed out by the sight of a vagina. Some people are more strongly oriented than others.

 

[The Atheist]

Re the highlighted, that's a weird reaction to the mention of genitals?

I can look at a cock or a vagina and am fine?
Are you sure they didn't have previous issues as that's not a typical reaction?

Pretty sure there were no other issues - he just found the female form as unattractive as I find it attractive. He and his mom had a great relationship and he was not in any way anti-female, he just couldn't stand looking at their bits.

He was definitely over the top with it all, but the point remains that trans men would never be in his sexual targets. He's certainly not the only gay friend I have or have had who wouldn't look a vagina in the eye, but he was the most outspoken about them.

 

[Graham2001]

Varies from person to person. I know straight females who are completely grossed out by the sight of a vagina. Some people are more strongly oriented than others.

And of course some people react quite strongly to the mere presence of males. This is an editorial from a student at Oberlein College about the discomfort they felt when the college decided to upgrade the heating system in a 'Safe Space'.

On Oct. 7, residents of Baldwin Cottage received an email from Josh Matos, the area coordinator for Multicultural and Identity-Based Communities.
“I am reaching out to you to give you an update on the radiator project,” Matos wrote. “Starting tomorrow (Friday, 10/8) the contractors will be entering rooms between 10 a.m. and 8 p.m. to install the radiators. This will mean that they will be in your room for a period of time to complete the work.”


I had not been contacted about any sort of radiator installation before this email, so right away the word “update” stood out to me as untrue. I grew concerned reading the second line, which informed me that I had less than 24 hours to prepare for the arrival of the installation crew, and I was further perturbed by the ambiguous “for a period of time.”
In general, I am very averse to people entering my personal space. This anxiety was compounded by the fact that the crew would be strangers, and they were more than likely to be cisgender men.

https://oberlinreview.org/25000/opinions/male-workers-allowed-into-baldwin-unsettling-residents/


This story has gone international (or at least has been picked up by the 'Daily Fail'...)

A student at an $80,000-a-year ultra-liberal Oberlin College in Ohio claimed in an op-ed that he was left ‘angry, scared, and confused’ because ‘cisgender men’ installed a radiator in his ‘safe space’ dormitory.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...g-cisgender-men-installed-radiators-room.html

 

[Emily's Cat]

And of course some people react quite strongly to the mere presence of males. This is an editorial from a student at Oberlein College about the discomfort they felt when the college decided to upgrade the heating system in a 'Safe Space'.





https://oberlinreview.org/25000/opinions/male-workers-allowed-into-baldwin-unsettling-residents/


This story has gone international (or at least has been picked up by the 'Daily Fail'...)





https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...g-cisgender-men-installed-radiators-room.html

Yeah, that got posted upthread.

I have questions. The author appears male, and everything referring to the article uses male pronouns for them. So I end up wondering why a male is so unnerved by males as to need to write an op ed about how unsafe they felt because of males.

Perhaps they are a transman, and a survivor of sexual assault, which would at least make the premise of the op ed make some sense.

On the other hand... they're also assuming the gender of the people who did work. How do they know that none of those people were transmen or nonbinary?

The whole op ed just seemed... odd.

 

[p0lka]

Varies from person to person. I know straight females who are completely grossed out by the sight of a vagina. Some people are more strongly oriented than others.

Really? that doesn't seem typical.

Are they looking into mirrors and being grossed out at the sight of their own vaginas for instance?
If so, then there are a lot of other issues that they need to deal with.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Really? that doesn't seem typical.

Are they looking into mirrors and being grossed out at the sight of their own vaginas for instance?
If so, then there are a lot of other issues that they need to deal with.

That sort of behavior always struck me as performatively "No Homo".

 

[Ziggurat]

That sort of behavior always struck me as performatively "No Homo".

I disagree. Vaginas are, objectively speaking, ugly. So are penises. That's why "bumping uglies" works as a euphemism. We are attracted to them despite their ugliness because of sexual desires. But vaginas aren't really attractive in their own right. That's why Georgia O'Keeffe had to make them look like something else in order to paint them.

 

[The Atheist]

I disagree. Vaginas are, objectively speaking, ugly.

Nah.

That's a purely subjective point of view. I could look at them all day long.

If only there were places on the internet you could do that.

 

[theprestige]

Nah.

That's a purely subjective point of view. I could look at them all day long.

If only there were places on the internet you could do that.

To each their own. Faceless, mechanical footage of penetralia does nothing for me.

 

[Ziggurat]

Nah.

That's a purely subjective point of view.

I disagree. There are objective aspects of attractiveness. Wrinkly flesh in any other context is widely recognized as ugly.

I could look at them all day long.

So could I, because of sexual attraction.

If only there were places on the internet you could do that.

 

[theprestige]

I wonder if we can get a trans-activist take on this:

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1450170666393686025

What trans rights are in play here? Entitlement to preferred pronouns at work and school? Choice of locker rooms and sports leagues? Representation in corporate and government bodies? Freedom from discrimination in employment and housing?

Before you dismiss this as false-flag "attack helicopter" nonsense, here's the LGBTA Wiki entry.

 

[Ron Obvious]

I wonder if we can get a trans-activist take on this:

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1450170666393686025

What trans rights are in play here? Entitlement to preferred pronouns at work and school? Choice of locker rooms and sports leagues? Representation in corporate and government bodies? Freedom from discrimination in employment and housing?

Before you dismiss this as false-flag "attack helicopter" nonsense, here's the LGBTA Wiki entry.

I used to think that a world war, famine, or deadly pandemic would cause us to collectively come to our senses and restore sanity when it comes to this sort of nonsense but it appears to have only exacerbated it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Nah.

That's a purely subjective point of view. I could look at them all day long.

If only there were places on the internet you could do that.

See, I'm on the opposite side of that. I don't find vaginas to be aesthetically pleasing at all. I'm not repulsed exactly, but given the option I'd definitely look at something else. On the other hand, I rather like the look of a twig & giggle berries. Some well-shaped wedding tackle is a lovely thing.