Universal Income.

Matthew Best said:
What evidence would you accept?
Click to expand...

Something like a trial has happened with a control group and it demonstrated that the experimental group was better off as a result of a UBI. Is that too much to ask, or are you one of those many “UBI better just because..” group?
 
lionking said:
Something like a trial has happened with a control group and it demonstrated that the experimental group was better off as a result of a UBI. Is that too much to ask, or are you one of those many “UBI better just because..” group?
Click to expand...

An experiment to inform universal basic income.

'In Finland’s two-year study, a treatment group of 2,000 randomly picked, initially unemployed people received a guaranteed, unconditional,3 and automatic cash payment of a modest €560 per month instead of a basic unemployment allowance in similar amounts'

'Interestingly, the final results of Finland’s program, released this spring, found that a basic income actually had a positive impact on employment. People on the basic income were more likely to be employed than those in the control group, and the differences were statistically significant, albeit small'

'People receiving the basic income reported better health and lower levels of stress, depression, sadness, and loneliness—all major determinants of happiness—than people in the control group. Recipients of the basic income also demonstrated more confidence in their cognitive skills, assessing their ability to remember, learn, and concentrate at higher levels than the control group did. And the basic income enabled people to perceive their financial situation as more secure and manageable, even though their incomes were no higher than those of people in the control group. Finally, basic-income recipients expressed higher levels of trust in their own future, their fellow citizens, and public institutions'
 
And, of course, the reality of the benefits/welfare trap shouldn't need citation, but here's one anyway. Which means that a welfare system can disincentivise people to work, because they can ultimately be worse off financially while in work. This is especially true of jobs in which there is no hope of moving up the ladder, so that can't be an incentive.

I know anecdotes are not data, but I've seen this personally. A single mother of two I once knew wanted to work and the dole office itself told her that she ought not to because she would be worse off.

That's simply not the case with UBI, where you will continue getting the money regardless.
 
Belz... said:
Is the UBI money taxable?
Click to expand...

As far as I can see it would be taxable and be added to earnings to count towards progressive taxation thresholds. The tax-free threshold should be set above the UBI amount so that people who have only UBI wouldn't pay tax. For people who are earning, the UBI replaces their tax-free threshold on earnings so taxes on earnings would start sooner and higher taxation brackets would be reached at lower earning levels. This would offset some of the costs of the UBI.
 
Elaedith said:
As far as I can see it would be taxable and be added to earnings to count towards progressive taxation thresholds. The tax-free threshold should be set above the UBI amount so that people who have only UBI wouldn't pay tax. For people who are earning, the UBI replaces their tax-free threshold on earnings so taxes on earnings would start sooner and higher taxation brackets would be reached at lower earning levels. This would offset some of the costs of the UBI.
Click to expand...


While I don't completely dis the idea, but think it is stupid,

Who is paying for it and from what source?
 
JoeMorgue said:
If we're being cynical here the fact that it hasn't even been really attempted large scale in the perfect glorious socialist utopias like Sweden and Denmark is really all the proof you need that what we're talking about at the very least isn't easy.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd agree with this. Implementing something like this is a huge step and until someone actually rolls one out in its entirety, I doubt anyone knows what the knock-on implications will be.
 
Elaedith said:
As far as I can see it would be taxable and be added to earnings to count towards progressive taxation thresholds. The tax-free threshold should be set above the UBI amount so that people who have only UBI wouldn't pay tax. For people who are earning, the UBI replaces their tax-free threshold on earnings so taxes on earnings would start sooner and higher taxation brackets would be reached at lower earning levels. This would offset some of the costs of the UBI.
Click to expand...

That's what I figured. That means I would only get a fraction of that sweet 2000$ a month; maybe 1200. But it's better than nothin'.
 
psionl0 said:
That's a bit like asking if a tax rebate is taxable.

The UBI itself wouldn't be taxable (it is basically a tax rebate for higher income earners) but the tax scales would have to be adjusted accordingly.
Click to expand...

Well it might be a bit like asking that but then I got a positive answer just a few minutes back. Of course it doesn't make a difference since in the end it increases my income, which is taxed.
 
Belz... said:
Well it might be a bit like asking that but then I got a positive answer just a few minutes back. Of course it doesn't make a difference since in the end it increases my income, which is taxed.
Click to expand...
It is probably not all that important if UBI is added to your taxable income or not. At the end of the day, you will still pay the same amount of tax.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom