psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
So nobody is currently employed?
Universal Income.
- Thread starter RolandRat
- Start date
You haven't added up all the Centrelink payments, just age pension and unemployment.
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink
"Social security and welfare represents 35 per cent of the Australian Government’s expenses."
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...tary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook45p/WelfareCost
So a UBI could be cheaper.
I’m aware of that. These payments will definitely effected by a UBI. I don’t expect payments for people with disabilities and so on will be replaced with a UBI.
NDIS isn't part of Centrelink, so it's not on that list.
NDIS is the main form of disability support (for those who aren't aware), tailored specifically to individual needs.
The Centrelink disability support pension would be replaced by a UBI.
People with disabilities would be better off, like everyone.
Robots still wouldn't get paid.
NDIS isn't part of Centrelink, so it's not on that list.
NDIS is the main form of disability support (for those who aren't aware), tailored specifically to individual needs.
The Centrelink disability support pension would be replaced by a UBI.
People with disabilities would be better off, like everyone.
Robots still wouldn't get paid.
If the UBI is more than the DSP. There needs to be a massive amount put into the UBI to allow for that. We can’t afford to allow the deficit to increase at unsustainable levels, and if it is to be funded each year, tax increases would need to be huge.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
You still haven't subtracted the Australians who are employed. Why do you think they would get extra?
What? Everyone gets a UBI, employed or unemployed. That’s the “U” bit.
The whole point of a UBI is everyone gets it.
Employed or not.
Kids of working age (over 16ish)yadda yadda
Here they reckon 70 billion, which while nice would kill the country
The disability support pension is about $930 a fortnight, so it would not be a massive difference if the UBI was $1000 like we've been discussing.
People with disabilities would be marginally financially better off, and also wouldn't have to go through the hoops of applying for the disability support pension.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Why do you insist that the tax scales will be unchanged?
Fair enough. What about my point about where the money’s coming from?
Sigh. I’ve argued throughout that income tax rises will be unpalatable.
Are you saying that income taxes will need to be raised to pay for the UBI? Yes it would work, while being political suicide.
They can't be unchanged, to pretend they wouldn't is a pipe dream.
The money has to come from somewhere.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Why not? This is nothing new.
In 1975 the Whitlam government changed the tax scales so that every tax payer was entitled to a $540 rebate (not to exceed tax payable). However they had to pay tax on the first dollar they earned. Later, the $540 rebate was incorporated in the tax tables so that there was a tax free threshold again.
A similar thing would have to happen if there was a UBI. Workers would not be worse off (since they also get the UBI) so it shouldn't be that difficult a sell.
But we are talking $20k+ UBI.
There will be winners and losers with a fully funded UBI. And many of the losers will be big losers. Try selling that to the electorate.
I have problems with the practicality of a UBI. I also believe it is politically impossible. Such large transfers of wealth will not happen here in my view.
It’s not universal at all then. It has to be over $20k if it is to replace the age pension. If it doesn’t replace the pension and unemployment benefit ($6k is far less than the dole) what is the point?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Already explained. It will give something to those who currently get nothing because they can't jump through the bureaucratic hoops set for them.
If a dictionary is your best argument against such a scheme then you are not really trying.