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Is vegetarianism foolish?

David Swidler said:
Anyone know of a correlation between vegetarianism and politics?
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I'm pretty sure it's been shown that people who like to argue vegetarianism also like to argue politics.

Also, threads on vegetarianism, though rarer, spiral out of control as often as thread on politics.
 
Loon said:
I'm pretty sure it's been shown that people who like to argue vegetarianism also like to argue politics.

Also, threads on vegetarianism, though rarer, spiral out of control as often as thread on politics.
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:)

I meant, of course, political views....

[shuffles away, muttering, "Some people will misunderstand anything]"
 
I suspect, for no particular reason, that vegetarians are more likely than average to have politics somewhat left of centre. I'm not sure what you're after really, as you ask for a correlation, which does not really in itself tell us anything. Somebody, of course, is bound to say that Hitler was a vegetarian, so I may as well get in there first, whether it be true or not.

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Loon said:
I'm pretty sure it's been shown that people who like to argue vegetarianism also like to argue politics.
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Not me. I like to argue vegetarianism, but no politics. The difference is that when arguing vegetarianism you can actually reach a conclusion. Not so with politics.

What you probably meant is the inverse: People who like to argue politics also like to argue vegetarianism.

But then, people who like to argue politics like to argue almost anything.
 
While I'm not vegetarian, I support the choice morally. On the other hand I really like meat, and it's a lot of work to make sure you keep a healthy diet without it. It can be done, of course, but just eliminating meat without making any other changes isn't a good idea. And what country you live in (and thus what foods are available at restaurants and in supermarkets) can make it easier or harder.

My younger sister, for instance, has been a vegetarian for maybe 10 years now. But I don't think the word actually applies well to her - her diet consists mainly of potatoes and breads. She isn't much for fruits and vegetables.
Taking out meat from her diet didn't add in those things that she really needed, nor did she make sure to replace what she was missing when she took it out. For her, I think the vegetarianism hasn't helped her health, and may have harmed it.

So for a health choice, while it is a valid way to go, it only works if you make sure that you get what you need from vegetarian sources.

I was vegetarian while I was living in India for about six months, doing 2 hours of intense exercises every day, and I didn't suffer for it - though the few times that some friends and I got together for bean night we all seemed a lot stronger the next day.

But this topic brings up something else. I've heard a lot of yogis say that a vegetarian diet helps to improve flexibility. I very much doubt this.

I actually find it likely that the opposite is true - that eating meat makes one more likely to get enough protein, which in turn helps the muscles to heal faster after stretching and thus develop the flexibility faster.

Any idea why a veg diet would help improve flexibility?
 
My roommate is a vegetarian, because (he claims) that it's more efficient. It takes more energy to raise a cow than raise some corn.

Thoughts?

Interestingly, he also hates being a vegetarian. He hates the taste of all those soy "meat replacement" foods. Yet, he digs right in.
 
TV's Frank said:
My roommate is a vegetarian, because (he claims) that it's more efficient. It takes more energy to raise a cow than raise some corn
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Well, the question is how much energy does it take to raise 250 kg of corn which give more or less the same amount of protein as an average cow (assuming an average cow produces 25 kg of protein). Not to mention quality of protein. And how much energy does one have to consume if he's going to get in the trouble to combine daily different sources of vegetable protein trying to get the recommended amount of all amino acids.
 
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El Greco said:
Well, the question is how much energy does it take to raise 250 kg of corn which give more or less the same amount of protein as an average cow (assuming an average cow produces 25 kg of protein). Not to mention quality of protein. And how much energy does one have to consume if he's going to get in the trouble to combine daily different sources of vegetable protein trying to get the recommended amount of all amino acids.
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It all depends.

Here in Florida, we have lots of land, and grass, and rain, and sunlight. Lots of cattle, too. They eat the grass and the palmetto scrub and other stuff that humans don't and really can't eat. There's enough land so it isn't overgrazed.

When I drive through Florida (the real Florida, not Miami or Orlando or those places that outsiders see), I like to see the 100-acre tracts, over and over again for hundreds of miles, with a few cattle on each tract, with the land in a state that's close to natural.

And I don't mind eating the cattle, because I know it's sustainable and ecologically sound.

And Florida grass-fed beef is damned good. Low in fat and quite flavorful. Maybe a bit tougher, because the cattle live actual lives, but it's worth it.
 
TV's Frank said:
My roommate is a vegetarian, because (he claims) that it's more efficient. It takes more energy to raise a cow than raise some corn.

Thoughts?

QUOTE]

This assumes that one is feeding the animals grain, or some other thing that humans can eat. I live on a farm and raise about 90% of the meat we eat. I do not feed those sheep and goats grain; they eat grass and weeds. Humans can not eat grass and weeds, no matter how hard they try or what their convictions are. My land is not suitable for growing grains, but I can grow native grasses and forbs pretty well. This means I can turn a hillside filled with scrub and weeds into lamb chops.

No matter how much energy you put in, there is a lot of land in the world that will not grow corn, or wheat or rice etc. I always thought that by utilizing an efficient grazing animal, such as a goat or a llama, that land can be put to use and provide food. It seems to me that the argument of "it takes more energy" was originally put forward by someone who did not really farm, who lived in a wealthy country and who did not realize that cows can eat grass, too.
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Jeff Corey said:
Pandas are carnivores?
Well, that explains the, "Eats, shoots and leaves."
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Yep, they almost exclusively eat bamboo, but are scientifically classified as a carnivore. They have to eat 18 hours each day, if I remember correctly, because their digestive system isn't well suited for a herbivore diet.
 
I'm not a vegetarian and will never be one. I think many vegetarians are foolish, but I don't think vegetarianism itself is foolish.

We place an intrinsic value on human life and freedom. I do not find it illogical to place such values on animal lifes as well, considering how much animals and humans have in common, even though I myself have placed no such value. I can empatize with animals feeling pain, but concerning the death of animals I have no concern. I think most people feel the same.
 
Do vegetarians realise that canibalism is only known where the natives had NO large domestic animals? If you are protein starved, you betcha you are going to gain your enemies strength if you eat his high grade protein muscles.

An aquaintence of mine is a ovo-lacto vegitarian, and a Peta activist. One day he gave me story. Seems 30 years ago, his doctors told him he had congenital problem in his intenstines and needed surgery. He delayed, and found an alternative 'Doctor' who prescribed a fast, and a high fiber vegetartian diet. His health improved. So, now he thinks everybody shouldn't eat animals.....just because HE needs a special diet.
 
casebro said:
Do vegetarians realise that canibalism is only known where the natives had NO large domestic animals? If you are protein starved, you betcha you are going to gain your enemies strength if you eat his high grade protein muscles.
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I cannot speak for vegetarians, but I can only imagine that they'd ask what the point is. Correlation is not causation, and unless the reverse is true (i.e. having no large domestic animals is only known amongst vegetarians) I really can't see what we can draw from this.

Cheers,
Rat.
 
TV's Frank said:
Interestingly, he also hates being a vegetarian. He hates the taste of all those soy "meat replacement" foods. Yet, he digs right in.
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Why does he bother with eating that stuff? Why doesn't he just enjoy the bountiful supply of non-meat-look-alike foods?
 
jimtron said:
What do you mean "animal vs. a human?" What kind of situation would entail choosing between human and animal?

If you're against cruelty against animals, than you have that in common with vegetarians.
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What I mean is, if doing research using an animal will have positive medical benefits for humans, then I'm sorry for the animal, but I still support that it should be done. I wasn't thinking of a one on one situation, lol.

I'm against cruelty for the sake of cruelty. However, sometimes you have to weight the potential good against the unfortunate bad.
 
EGarrett said:
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Like for example, not eating "filthy animals" like a pig. The portions of the pig that you eat never actually come into contact with mud. As far as I know they're muscle, which spends its time on the inside of the body.
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You're kidding, right?

It's not the mud that they allegedly wallow in that led to pigs' "filthy" reputation, but rather their tendency to host desease and parasites and transmit them in their meat -- e.g., trichinosis. Modern swine raising techniques have rendered these concerns moot. But then the religious restrictions against pork by Jews is, strictly speaking, because God said so, not, ostensibly, because they're filthy animals. Not sure how that maps out for Muslims.

By the way, pigs prefer to be dry unless it's a really hot day.
 
Yep. All this talk about food is making me hungry too. So don't start talking about Alcohol . The little enzymes that do the job for you die when the brew gets up to about 14 %. So I maybe Vegies should avoid Sherry or Port where the fementation process is killed by adding spirit .
 
Rat said:
I cannot speak for vegetarians, but I can only imagine that they'd ask what the point is. Correlation is not causation, and unless the reverse is true (i.e. having no large domestic animals is only known amongst vegetarians) I really can't see what we can draw from this.

Cheers,
Rat.
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People hunger for high quality protein to the extent of eating dead humans, even if they have to murder to get it. I thought that point was obvious. Doesn't cannibalism make animal rights activism look really, really foolish?

Now I'm wondering about the placebo effect of the Christian ritual of eating the body and blood of Christ. Do malnourished Xtians gain a boost of brain power? or is the boost strictly spiritual?
 
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