Ed Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

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Caroline13 said:
How about $100's for cancer drugs that if one did their research on supplements and cancer prevention, $20 and under for supplements for cancer prevention can do a good job...that's where I have gone for over 25 yrs with my grape seed extract.
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Nope. More useless and possibly dangerous health advice.
 
Caroline13 said:
Yes, pharma does produce some supplements so they can keep up so to speak and surely get a lot of their ingredients from china and other 3rd world countries...I stay away from the low priced cwap supplements.
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You didn't read the quoted text, or chose to ignore it. The vast majority of the supplements and other "health store" trade is produced by the same companies that make the drugs that you disparage.
 
My idiotic SiL is a MLM supplement pimp. She considers herself a (snicker) entrepreneur but needs to hold down a full-time job to make actual money. An anti-vaxxer and trumpist, she gets ill as often as anyone else, yet denies it, as I imagine most snake oil peddlers do. No one in the family purchases squat from her, not even vitamins.
 
To poke at these in reverse order...

Steve said:
Aridas says "sell" and you say "produce". You really should start comprehending what people post before you respond.
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Honestly, the two words are pretty much interchangeable in this context. Certainly not worth taking issue with.

Steve said:
Does paying more than you have to for worthless crap come under the category of open minded?
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I think that you're overstating your case more than a little, really. To poke at grape seed extract as an example because Caroline13 had brought it up and was getting bashed for such, WebMD has this to say -

There is evidence that grape seed extract is beneficial for a number of cardiovascular conditions. Grape seed extract may help with a type of poor circulation (chronic venous insufficiency) and high cholesterol. Grape seed extract also reduces swelling caused by injury and helps with eye disease related to diabetes.
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So, certainly not necessarily worthless. Overhyped, perhaps, and I can't comment specifically on how cost-effective it is for helping to deal with the things that it's actually useful for, but not worthless. Similarly, many supplements certainly can have a various beneficial effects, if used appropriately, even though *most* supplements are ineffective and the ones that can be effective are quite likely to be misused in practice. They are officially no substitute for appropriate drugs, either way, should drugs be prescribed, and if I understand the situation correctly, it's illegal for the makers to make drug effect claims in relation to them.

Caroline13 said:
Yes, pharma does produce some supplements so they can keep up so to speak
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Quite a bit, rather. To deal with the rest, Big Herba - subject to pretty much the same pressures as the supplement makers of Big Pharma - produces the overwhelming share of the remainder.

Caroline13 said:
I stay away from the low priced cwap supplements.
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To poke at vitamins, to make an easy point - more expensive vitamins do NOT mean that they're better. Similar fairly certainly applies to supplements in general (as well as a lot of other things in general).
 
bruto said:
Also of course a rabid anti-vax site. Truly rabid. Among their pet projects is (or was) a fight against rabies vaccinations for dogs.
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Snake oil peddling with supplemental (sorry) anti-vax: your one stop woo shop.
 
Caroline13 said:
Yes, pharma does produce some supplements so they can keep up so to speak and surely get a lot of their ingredients from china and other 3rd world countries...I stay away from the low priced cwap supplements.
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This is painful to read. It's too much for you to accept that the companies which dominate pharmaceuticals are also big in supplements, so you tell yourself some comforting nonsense you just made up so you can feel better about it.

[make-believe]Oh, sure, they probably dabble in supplements, just to try to keep up with the proper supplements manufacturers, but I bet they fill their products with cheap crap ingredients from countries I don't like of trust because that's just the kind of thing they do because what do pharmaceutical manufacturers know about quality control or purity or testing? They don't know about making natural, wholesome stuff like the supplements I buy. I know their products are garbage because I just know.[/make-believe]
 
My original point was about Caroline's double standard.

I see she successfully distracted you all with a non sequitur of whether supplements work or not.

I would still like an answer, though.
 
Tom Palven said:
I frankly think that masks, social distancing, and lockdowns are irrelevant to the spread of the viruses involved, but that's almost beside the point.

I definitely don't need to come to listen to alleged skeptics repeat politically correct conventional wisdom. I've gotten all that over and over, and could have gotten it from osmosis, alone.

It's like knowing the tune and at least some of the words to Amazing Grace, whether or not you want to.
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What are your data points? What does your modeling tell you? What are your models telling you?
 
Tom Palven said:
They are telling me that the alleged Covid-19 pandemic is a political mass movement and not a plague of Biblical proportions.
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As you've been told repeatedly, this is a pathetic, silly strawman as no one suggests that, past or present.

As to politics, whose politics? Since this is a worldwide pandemic, I'm wondering how politics transcends borders in this one unique case.
 
Aridas said:
I think that you're overstating your case more than a little, really. To poke at grape seed extract as an example because Caroline13 had brought it up and was getting bashed for such, WebMD has this to say
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I posted that link earlier and actually made a mental note to look into it further - I had to discontinue the statin I was prescribed for high cholesterol because of side effects, it might be a useful one for me.

The point is it's not an either/or decision. You can do many things to improve your chances of staying healthy - eat sensibly, exercise, maintain a sensible weight and, yes, take the supplements for which there's real evidence of benefit. But none of that will completely protect you. At most it will reduce your chances of getting seriously sick but if you do, you will still need the best treatments modern medicine can provide as well. And the most effective way of reducing your chances of catching a potentially fatal virus is to be vaccinated against it. The second most effective in the absence of a vaccine is to avoid exposure, i.e masks, social distancing and, if those aren't enough, lockdowns.
 
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Tom Palven said:
They are telling me that the alleged Covid-19 pandemic is a political mass movement and not a plague of Biblical proportions.
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That's just an uninformed opinion. That's nothing. It has no value. Why even bother sharing it? The pandemic is serious and you're spouting off kid's table nonsense. Why would you do that?
 
Tom Palven said:
I frankly think that masks, social distancing, and lockdowns are irrelevant to the spread of the viruses involved, but that's almost beside the point.
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zooterkin said:
You're entitled to believe whatever nonsense you choose, but the facts are against you.

How do you think this particular virus propagates, and why do those methods not affect it?
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Seconded.
Tom, how do you think viruses spread?
 
Caroline13 said:
Yes, pharma does produce some supplements so they can keep up so to speak and surely get a lot of their ingredients from china and other 3rd world countries...I stay away from the low priced cwap supplements.
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What difference does it make, in your eyes, if the grapes come from China? Surely the health benefits would be the same?
Ditto "3rd world countries" (a term that has generally fallen out of use, as it is considered patronising and colonialist, by the way). Do grapes grown in, say, Kenya, not have the same effect as Good Ole Merkan Grayups? What kind of patronising, racist nonsense is this?
Finally, you say that low price is an indication of low quality, whilst at the same time castigating pharmaceutical companies from pricing their products too high. Are these judgements simply arbitrary expressions of confirmation bias, or is there some hidden logic here?

ETA: By the way, I had a look at GSE extracts online, and none of them appear to state the country of origin. Which supplements do you use, and where do they come from?
 
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Cosmic Yak said:
What difference does it make, in your eyes, if the grapes come from China? Surely the health benefits would be the same?
Ditto "3rd world countries" (a term that has generally fallen out of use, as it is considered patronising and colonialist, by the way). Do grapes grown in, say, Kenya, not have the same effect as Good Ole Merkan Grayups? What kind of patronising, racist nonsense is this?
Finally, you say that low price is an indication of low quality, whilst at the same time castigating pharmaceutical companies from pricing their products too high. Are these judgements simply arbitrary expressions of confirmation bias, or is there some hidden logic here?

ETA: By the way, I had a look at GSE extracts online, and none of them appear to state the country of origin. Which supplements do you use, and where do they come from?
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Doesn't matter as long as it is the most expensive. Because everyone knows that the more you pay, the higher the quality.
 
Steve said:
Doesn't matter as long as it is the most expensive. Because everyone knows that the more you pay, the higher the quality.
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Unless it's "pharma drugs" in which case the high price is because Big Pharma are a bunch of money grabbing pigs.
 
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