2020 United States presidential election - Conspiracy theories, alleged fraud, etc

[No Other]

One more thing. I really do think we need a constitutional amendment that tightens up some of the grey areas exposed by this post-election fiasco. I think the system has held up very well under the assumption that presidential candidates and their supporters are, at their heart, people who believe in democracy, fair play, and the rule of law. However, this year has exposed what happens when those assumptions are shown to be false.

We need to get rid of things like "the legislature of the state", and replace it with "the laws of the state", ensuring that we won't see any of the attempted post-hoc coup attempts Trump is trying to pull now. We need to actually state that the votes of the people matter. Even if we keep the outdated concept of state-by-state electoral votes, is there anyone who thinks having actual electors, some of which might be "faithless", is a good idea?

Unfortunately, it won't happen, because no matter how simple or obvious the proposed reform is, it will slightly favor one side or the other, and so the other side won't support it.

Well put!

 

[Random]

That's bizarre. He's straight out claiming in 11 and 12 that a 5% voting swing between two difference candidates over four years is statistically impossible. This is based on a statistical variance calculated from a single value. I'm not even sure what "I estimate the variance by multiplying the mean times the probability of the candidate not getting a vote" is supposed to mean, though I suspect the probability referred to is of rectal origin.

And he's saying in 15, "The Georgia reversal in the outcome raises questions because the votes tabulated in the two time periods could not be random samples from the same population of all votes cast." Well, duh. We know they weren't samples from the same population; the entire strategy of the Republican party leading up to the election was to divide the electorate into two distinct populations and to sample the one known to have a massive pro-Republican bias first. He's then admitting that the two populations could be different but saying there's no evidence that they were, thus neatly reversing the burden of proof.

He is basically starting from the assumption that the casting of votes in an election is a totally random process, then analysing the results with a completely invalid approach, and concluding that the difference between the two elections cannot be caused by completely random processes. Again, well, duh.

I find it hard to believe that anyone with a working understanding of statistics could make these pronouncements as honest mistakes. As you say, it's Truther math; start out with a conclusion you want to prove, work back through an incompetent method to come up with a nonsensical set of premises, then present the whole lot in reverse order.

Ultimately, all that Charles J. Chichetti has demonstrated is that voters don't choose their preferred candidate using a blindfold and a dart board.

Dave

Shorter Texas lawsuit:

Republican: "Since the 2016 and 2020 elections were identical, they should have had similar outcomes, and it is mathematically inconceivable that Trump could have lost."

Democrat: "But there were plenty of differences between 2016 and..."

Republican: "MATHEMATICALLY INCONCEIVABLE! MATHEMATICALLY INCONCEIVABLE! SKREEEEEE!!!!!!"

 

[eerok]

Powell’s Arizona co-counsel Alex Kolodin told The Epoch Times in a phone interview that his team plans to fast-track the case to the Supreme Court and will file a petition for appeal in the coming days. (as planned)

https://www.theepochtimes.com/sidne...dium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2020-12-10-1

Powell is a glutton for failure. The only thing she's proved so far is that she has no case. There's no reasonable expectation that an appeal would make any difference -- it's not as if she had any facts to begin with or has new ones now -- and why would SCOTUS care about this?

 

[CaptainHowdy]

One more thing. I really do think we need a constitutional amendment that tightens up some of the grey areas exposed by this post-election fiasco. I think the system has held up very well under the assumption that presidential candidates and their supporters are, at their heart, people who believe in democracy, fair play, and the rule of law. However, this year has exposed what happens when those assumptions are shown to be false.

We need to get rid of things like "the legislature of the state", and replace it with "the laws of the state", ensuring that we won't see any of the attempted post-hoc coup attempts Trump is trying to pull now. We need to actually state that the votes of the people matter. Even if we keep the outdated concept of state-by-state electoral votes, is there anyone who thinks having actual electors, some of which might be "faithless", is a good idea?

Unfortunately, it won't happen, because no matter how simple or obvious the proposed reform is, it will slightly favor one side or the other, and so the other side won't support it.

A big problem with election reform is that elected officials are the people who need to do the work to correct the problem. And since the current system is what got them elected, they are going to be very hesitant to make major changes.

 

[Meadmaker]

Use unfounded assumptions and baseless estimates to come up with a ludicrous result. They could just as well be talking about UFOs and chemtrails and 9/11 conspiracies.

Wait! The UFOs were in on this? That explains everything! FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No wonder the Democrats were so upset when Donald Trump tried to do something about illegal aliens.

ETA: But, slightly more seriously, the ridiculous use of pseudoprobability in calculations like that is a pet peeve of mine, too. I didn't look up the calculation, but when I saw the result I knew it would be some variation of stupid.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Yes. Now that Republicans have learned where the choke points are that blocked their attempt to steal the election, they now know where they need to put loyalists. I doubt this will be the last election the Republicans attempt to steal.

Considering how Trump blatantly stole the election in 2016, you can be sure the Republicans are going to try again in 2024.

 

[pgwenthold]

Powell is a glutton for failure. The only thing she's proved so far is that she has no case.

That's not fair.

She has also proved that she is a liar.

Seriously, she made up a quote to put in a legal argument and gave it to the judge. Who knew better.

 

[Bubba]

Dominion system inherently prevented the successful use of risk-limiting audits (RLA)—a method employed by Georgia during the recount.

Cybersecurity experts provided evidence to the court that Dominion’s QR system wasn’t secure, was subject to duplication, and that the ability to generate fake QR codes existed. A nationally recognized cybersecurity expert also found that during Georgia’s August 2020 elections, servers at two county election offices he visited “enabled unsafe remote access to the system through a variety of means,” including the use of flash drives.

This same expert found that in one of those counties, “server logs were not regularly recording or updated in full and that Dominion’s technical staff maintained control over the logs and made deletions in portions of the logs.”

Computer science experts also found significant problems with the testing processes used by Pro V&V in the testing of the Dominion equipment. In a case that involved last-minute updates to Dominion software in late September 2020, the court was told that the testing lab “performed only cursory testing of this new software.”

https://www.theepochtimes.com/georg...f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb-2020-12-10

 

[pgwenthold]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/georg...f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb-2020-12-10

For the record, the reason Georgia used Dominion voting is because the Republican legislature approved them. The inability of doing RLAs was known to the legislators when they voted to approve them, and apparently it didn't matter enough to worry about it. The democratic minority was the ones who expressed concerns about using them before the election.

But that doesn't matter, because they were used in the election. You can't whine now that they were not acceptable.

I guarantee you, if, for the next election, if the Republicans want to get rid of Dominion, that the Democrats will gladly go along with it. Won't bother them in the least.

But that doesn't mean you get to nullify the election that just took place under the rules that you approved.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Nothing can stop what is coming

Remember the threads about the Republican party being science deniers?

This is the result. This is complete pseudoscience crap.

Not the result, just another symptom.

Qanon is more important than you think

QAnon is emblematic of modern America’s susceptibility to conspiracy theories, and its enthusiasm for them. But it is also already much more than a loose collection of conspiracy-minded chat-room inhabitants. It is a movement united in mass rejection of reason, objectivity, and other Enlightenment values. And we are likely closer to the beginning of its story than the end. The group harnesses paranoia to fervent hope and a deep sense of belonging. The way it breathes life into an ancient preoccupation with end-times is also radically new. To look at QAnon is to see not just a conspiracy theory but the birth of a new religion...

It’s impossible to know the number of QAnon adherents with any precision, but the ranks are growing. At least 35 current or former congressional candidates have embraced Q... QAnon has by now made its way onto every major social and commercial platform and any number of fringe sites.

On March 9, Q himself issued a triptych of ominous posts that seemed definitive: The coronavirus is real, but welcome, and followers should not be afraid. The first post shared Trump’s tweet from the night before and repeated, “Nothing Can Stop What Is Coming.” The second said: “The Great Awakening is Worldwide.” The third was simple: “GOD WINS”....

QAnon carries on a tradition of apocalyptic thinking that has spanned thousands of years. It offers a polemic to empower those who feel adrift... The Seventh-day Adventists and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are thriving religious movements indigenous to America. Do not be surprised if QAnon becomes another. It already has more adherents by far than either of those two denominations had in the first decades of their existence.

What we are witnessing is far more than just a bit of science denial for political expedience, it is revealing the grip that religious thought has on half the population. But it's not any particular religions that are the cause - it's the minds of the believers who create them.

We laughed at their irrationality, but tolerated it - and ignored the real threat. What we are seeing is the result.

 

[eerok]

That's not fair.

She has also proved that she is a liar.

Seriously, she made up a quote to put in a legal argument and gave it to the judge. Who knew better.

Hey, I was fair, I just wasn't comprehensive. She's also proved herself to be crazy.

 

[heymatto70]

Apparently, the sedition bandwagon is growing as 106 House Reps filed this today:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...vania Amicus Brief of 106 Representatives.pdf

106 elected officials (all Republicans) are backing the Texas lawsuit.

 

[Hellbound]

Apparently, the sedition bandwagon is growing as 106 House Reps filed this today:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...vania Amicus Brief of 106 Representatives.pdf

106 elected officials (all Republicans) are backing the Texas lawsuit.

Apparently ignorance and misery share some common characteristics...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eerok]

Here comes the blowback to Paxton's lawsuit.

Democratic Attorneys General Argue That Texas’ Supreme Court Lawsuit Asks the Justices to ‘Reorder the Constitution’ [lawandcrime.com]

Twenty states, two U.S. territories, and Washington, D.C. implored the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday to reject a long-shot lawsuit filed by the state of Texas which asked the justices to throw out the election results in four states where President Donald Trump lost to Joe Biden. Earlier this week, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) filed a motion for leave to file a bill of complaint against Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin, repurposing the Trump campaign’s ineffectual legal arguments to claim that “electoral irregularities” prevented knowing who “legitimately” won the 2020 election.

 

[JayUtah]

I'm not even sure what "I estimate the variance by multiplying the mean times the probability of the candidate not getting a vote" is supposed to mean, though I suspect the probability referred to is of rectal origin.

Essentially. Dr. Cicchetti assumes that the probability that a given Pennsylvania voter would vote for Joe Biden in 2020 is identical to the probability that a given Pennsylvania voter would have voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Yes, that's a jaw-dropper.

He's then admitting that the two populations could be different but saying there's no evidence that they were, thus neatly reversing the burden of proof.

In their complaint, Texas admits they know why this happened: that Democrat-leaning voters were more apt to vote by mail than in-person voters. And it was, of course, widely reported that this was expected. Texas keeps saying the quiet part loud.

 

[trustbutverify]

Considering how Trump blatantly stole the election in 2016, you can be sure the Republicans are going to try again in 2024.

Why not grant Putin dual citizenship, and run him for president? I'm sure the GOP can find a way to allow him to run both Nations simultaneously, and this way they can cut out the middleman.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Including Texas, is it 20 yet??

It's actually 21.

But it won't matter. Four years ago, the Democrats had proven that Russian collusion had stolen the election from Hillary. Everybody in America knew that Trump had stolen the election but the courts just let it slide.

The same thing will happen this time around. The courts will invoke the doctrine of getsies-backsies. The Republicans stole the election in 2016 so in the interest of justice, the Democrats will allowed to steal the 2020 election.

Then in 2024 we can all just vote Libertarian like we should have been doing all along

 

[kookbreaker]

It's actually 21.

But it won't matter. Four years ago, the Democrats had proven that Russian collusion had stolen the election from Hillary. Everybody in America knew that Trump had stolen the election but the courts just let it slide.

The same thing will happen this time around. The courts will invoke the doctrine of getsies-backsies. The Republicans stole the election in 2016 so in the interest of justice, the Democrats will allowed to steal the 2020 election.

The election in 2016 was never considered ‘stolen’. It was, however, considered to have had massive amounts of manipulation placed on it via hacking, media manipulation, and other efforts. Top that all off with a rather nasty October surprise and it’s understandable that some folks are angry about it. But I doubt many Democrats consider it to have been ‘stolen’.

Then in 2024 we can all just vote Libertarian like we should have been doing all along

When come back, bring real party.

 

[Pooneil]

Essentially. Dr. Cicchetti assumes that the probability that a given Pennsylvania voter would vote for Joe Biden in 2020 is identical to the probability that a given Pennsylvania voter would have voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Yes, that's a jaw-dropper.



In their complaint, Texas admits they know why this happened: that Democrat-leaning voters were more apt to vote by mail than in-person voters. And it was, of course, widely reported that this was expected. Texas keeps saying the quiet part loud.

Among the unfathomable parts so this fiasico is the fact that Trump discouraged his supported from using mail in ballots. So why wouldn't anyone expect the ballots to favor Biden.

If I though Trump had the foresight, one might believe it was a scheme to plant a seed for a challenge without delving too deep into conspiracy theory. But I simply cannot give the administration credit for that amount of competence.

 

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

Powell’s Arizona co-counsel Alex Kolodin told The Epoch Times in a phone interview that his team plans to fast-track the case to the Supreme Court and will file a petition for appeal in the coming days. (as planned)

https://www.theepochtimes.com/sidne...dium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2020-12-10-1

Keep clutching at straws, credule.

You got played for a sucker. Get over it.