Cont: Trump et al continued “2020 election” conspiracy theories

[smartcooky]

I think, in the years to come, lots of ph. d. s will be written on subjects like "Tendency to follow your leader beyond common sense". Not a large percentage, but some people will push on behind a strong leader (and much as we might hate it, Trump is that) long after most will have peeled away. The reason it right now seems like so many of them do is really because Trump has been cultivating those even from before the -16 campaign, carefully weeding out those that might not comply. That's the game he has been playing: It is hardly 4d chess, but it IS a quite mean game of checkers.

Hans

Jim Jones
L. Ron Hubbard
Marshall Applewhite
David Miscavage
Shoko Asahara
Joseph Di Mambro
Luc Jouret
David Koresh
Hyung Jin Moon

Bat-**** crazy every one of them.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Jim Jones
L. Ron Hubbard
Marshall Applewhite
David Miscavage
Shoko Asahara
Joseph Di Mambro
Luc Jouret
David Koresh
Hyung Jin Moon

Bat-**** crazy every one of them.

Sure. He will be in excellent company. But I don't think he'll mind so much, as long as he'll get some spotlight.

Hans

 

[phiwum]

can you engage this person on this issue, even very gently at first?

Nah. He's a good sailing buddy. I don't want to sully our occasional sails by pushing him hard.

I ask his opinion but I try not to debate. He is a very decent fellow, which makes his embrace of Trump really mystifying.

 

[Stacyhs]

Trump loses another one.

‘Few lawsuits breathe more lies than this one’: Judge eviscerates Sidney Powell election lawsuit

Sidney Powell, the attorney who was distanced from the US president’s legal team because she pushed election-related conspiracies, was said to have submitted a lawsuit that “breathed more lies” than most cases seen in court, after she challenged Michigan’s election results.

Issuing a response to Ms Powell’s lawsuit on Thursday, judges for the City of Detroit said the lawsuit contained “warped logic”, and dismissed claims that vote machines had been tampered with, among other conspiracy theories.

“Few lawsuits breathe more lies than this one,” said the 45-page court document, which was shared online. “The allegations are little more than fevered rantings of conspiracy theorists built on the work of other conspiracy theorists”.

Judges went on to eviscerate the former Trump campaign attorney and her allegations, saying that some complaints had already been dismissed in Michigan’s courts, and others had not been considered by the president’s team because they were “off the wall”.

“If any of the conspiracy theories contained in this case had merit, they would have been brought in those cases or by the Trump campaign legal team,” said the court. “Even the Trump campaign lawsuits have avoided the off-the-walls claims included in this lawsuit."

As well as a bruising assessment of her allegations, the court document went on to warn that Ms Powell wanted “nothing less than a court-ordered coup d’état."

"The fact that the Complaint is frivolous does not mean the lawsuit is not dangerous to our democracy,” it added.

 

[phiwum]

Thanks for the correction and pointing out the fallibility of human memory.

I recalled it as Ann Druyan, his wife, relating what he said on his deathbed. I was clearly conflating a couple of disparate memories.

But I don’t think that completely negates my point about differing world views.

I wasn't disputing your basic message, though I think there's probably a larger gray area than you let on. But this is enough of a digression.

 

[Minoosh]

From the Michigan court story above:

Judges went on to eviscerate the former Trump campaign attorney and her allegations, saying that some complaints had already been dismissed in Michigan’s courts, and others had not been considered by the president’s team because they were “off the wall”.

Taken literally, this would make for some pretty compelling video. I do think that's going a bit too far, though.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I think most of the projection comes from Trump, who is definitely not above cheating. His followers parrot his idiocy. Their conceptual failure is not so much projection as blind faith in Trump.

You give them too much credit. Most of them certainly would cheat and lie (and do) to bolster their 'blind faith'. Which isn't really faith BTW, because deep down they know it's all lies.

 

[surrogate]

Of all the things Trump's tweeted lately, this one seems to me to be the most unhinged. Why would he need to tweet this? Does he think that there are people who don't quite understand that he thinks the election was rigged? Was there some significant ambiguity in all his previous tweets claiming that the election was rigged that he now feels this will clear up? Has there been a news report suggesting that he now thinks it was fair?

Presumably he just realised that it's a few minutes since he last tweeted anything, and though he hasn't actually got anything to say, he doesn't fell that he exists unless he's being actively obnoxious. But it feels like he's just knee-jerking now.

Dave

Tweetrettes syndrome.

 

[JayUtah]

Trump loses another one.

This is slightly inaccurate, as the referenced document is not the opinion of "judges," but rather the defendants' response to an emergency motion for an injunction, from plaintiffs. No decision has been rendered on the motion yet, or on the case to which it refers. But given the plaintiffs' many errors, you can probably guess the likely outcome.

 

[8enotto]

Ambiguity gives the reader the task of filling in all the blanks.

Election rigged, voting machines were tampered with.
Umm, pretty clear they were not if one accepts facts.

Just " election rigged" let's any redneck yahoo decide why or how it was rigged by something they already believe. It must be true.

Pretty cool psychology trick and effective if not overused.

 

[Aridas]

Of all the things Trump's tweeted lately, this one seems to me to be the most unhinged. Why would he need to tweet this? Does he think that there are people who don't quite understand that he thinks the election was rigged? Was there some significant ambiguity in all his previous tweets claiming that the election was rigged that he now feels this will clear up? Has there been a news report suggesting that he now thinks it was fair?

Presumably he just realised that it's a few minutes since he last tweeted anything, and though he hasn't actually got anything to say, he doesn't fell that he exists unless he's being actively obnoxious. But it feels like he's just knee-jerking now.

Dave

Rather than unhinged, I'm more likely to attribute it to Trump trying to capitalize on his primary field of expertise - conning people. Repetition and playing on people's availability heuristic are some of the simplest and, in Trump's case, most cost-effective means of pushing his attempted con. As has been noted elsewhere, Trump's managed to raise over $200 million dollars after election day, seemingly on the basis of his rigged election claims.

 

[Darat]

From the even more nuttier CT thread

It's a good thing that we're headed into a weekend, because I am SO tired of all this winning that I can hardly stand it.



https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electi...rump-campaigns-conspiracy-theories-in-nevada/

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420226/nevada-dismissal-order_ocr.pdf

Really recommend reading the judgement, it goes through the allegations almost line by line and explains clearly the lack of supporting evidence.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

From the even more nuttier CT thread



https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420226/nevada-dismissal-order_ocr.pdf

Really recommend reading the judgement, it goes through the allegations almost line by line and explains clearly the lack of supporting evidence.

I have only skimmed through so far. But it appears this court opinion is very impressive. Extremely precise and to the point with everything cited. A clear and concise review of all the points of evidence. Very well written.

 

[rdaneel]

Trump's team star witness is a drunk woman who achieves the impossible feat of making Giulaini look embarrassed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334315220815278080

After only hearing her referred to as "Drunk Lady" or "Crazy Lady" and of course "Karen" in various places, I only just found out that her last name is "Carone" and there's a part of her testimony where she talks about "calling her manager over".

(time skipped to the appropriate moment)
https://youtu.be/G2f3aw9rk30?t=88

Edited to add: There's a tiny voice at the back of my mind that wonders if she was pulling off an elaborate prank. Apparently, she wasn't under oath, so I don't think there would be any consequences.

 

[Firestone]

From the even more nuttier CT thread



https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20420226/nevada-dismissal-order_ocr.pdf

Really recommend reading the judgement, it goes through the allegations almost line by line and explains clearly the lack of supporting evidence.

wow

You should add a rule to the MA, making this judgement required reading before a member is allowed to post in the CT section.

 

[Darat]

I have only skimmed through so far. But it appears this court opinion is very impressive. Extremely precise and to the point with everything cited. A clear and concise review of all the points of evidence. Very well written.

I was very interested in the part about expert witnesses - I was asking about this a couple of days ago. The judge was very careful to not dismiss out of hand the contestors' expert witnesses but used the established judgements to qualify their level of expertise and their credibility.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I'm getting more and more convinced that the Republicans used the Election Systems & Software (ES&S) to massively defraud Democrats in the Election, and their bashing of Dominon (which is the safer, better auditable system) is meant to distract and poison the well.

 

[Aridas]

I'm getting more and more convinced that the Republicans used the Election Systems & Software (ES&S) to massively defraud Democrats in the Election, and their bashing of Dominon (which is the safer, better auditable system) is meant to distract and poison the well.

Some Republicans, at least. It honestly wouldn't be a surprise, at all, not least because that's been a very real concern as Republicans keep trying to pick more expensive and less verifiable election systems, and certain... oddities in numbers. Georgia Republicans did that with a bunch of Dominion machines over distinct objections from the Georgia Democrats, in particular.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Eric Trump Tweets

@EricTrump
“Legitimate ballots do not come packed in a suitcase” -
@LaraLeaTrump

 

[sts60]

After only hearing her referred to as "Drunk Lady" or "Crazy Lady" and of course "Karen" in various places, I only just found out that her last name is "Carone" and there's a part of her testimony where she talks about "calling her manager over"...

“Two years before she'd become the breakout star of the clown show Rudy Giuliani brought to Lansing this week, Mellissa Carone was sending her then-boyfriend's ex-wife graphic videos of the two of them having sex.

Police reports obtained by Deadline Detroit reveal obscenity and computer crime charges filed against the 33-year-old Grosse Pointe Woods mother stem from a harassment campaign she waged against a 42-year-old woman in 2018 and 2019...”

The degeneracy and depravity of the Trump mob never fails to impress.