what was BEFORE the Big Bang?

I moved the discussion of AC's avatar to Forum Management. Please stick to the subject at hand here.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson
 
I moved the discussion of AC's avatar to Forum Management. Please stick to the subject at hand here.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

Well done, Lisa. May I take it that any reference to human sexuality and reproduction is now a topic which is officially banned from the JREF forums as being inappropriate and offensive?
 
Did I completely remove the posts? No. I just moved them out of this topic, which is supposed to be about the Big Bang, not the little bangs inside one's trousers.
 
Did I completely remove the posts? No. I just moved them out of this topic, which is supposed to be about the Big Bang, not the little bangs inside one's trousers.

Lisa, I'd like to make it clear that it wasn't me who started the kerfuffle, it was Maruli. Perhaps Maruli is embarrassed by the fact that she is the result of underpant rumblings; if so, I pity her.

Once again, I have broken no rules, and have changed my avatar as the result of a polite request from Mercutio.

Talk about a storm in a teacup...
 
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Lisa is right Camel. It was off topic. No you didn't really "start" anything. No big deal the derail is still alive in another subforum.
 
So offending avatar has disappeared, I appriciate it, and I can go back to my question.

I must first admit that my knowledge of physics and astronomy is very limited. I can personally live with the unanswered question, what there was before the Big Bang. I can live with my mental crutch of filling my lack of comprehension and knowledge with infinity in time and space. I can restrict my curiosity to learn, what is known.

But I still try to find a good answer to give to a christian missionary, which would not reinforce her conviction, that science is inferior to her belief that god was the creator, just because science has no better explanation of the Big Bang.
 
How about this: There's no necessity for a creation event. If they want to prove creationism, they have to demonstrate that necessity.

The Big Bang was just a big change in the form of the universe: The matter was always there.
 
In the beginning, there were neutrons, protons and cretons, As for the rest... enigue!

OK. The above is actually not how it works (neutrons and protons came some x(>0) seconds after the BB, cretons I guess 15 billions years later), but from what I think I understand, or current understanding of physics allows us to model the Big Bang up to about 10^(-40) seconds after 0. Before this point the universe is so dense (as the Big Bang describes an expansion of space, not an explosion of matter in pre-existing space) and hot that what we know of physics doesn't apply anymore. There's a lot of hypotheses and mathematically rooted conjectures on this unknown period from 0 to .00.....01 seconds as mentioned by others, but inevitably it gets really hard to conceptualize for the layman (and theoretical physicists too).
 


But I still try to find a good answer to give to a christian missionary, which would not reinforce her conviction, that science is inferior to her belief that god was the creator, just because science has no better explanation of the Big Bang.

Well for one thing, it was science, not religion, that discovered the Big Bang in the first place.

What knowledge has religion added to humanity in the last two thousand years? Near as I can tell, religion has been yammering on about the same useless junk since its inception. It doesn't reward curiousity or imagination.

All new information is brought to you through scientific inquiry.
 
Lisa is right Camel. It was off topic. No you didn't really "start" anything. No big deal the derail is still alive in another subforum.

Nonsense. I posted what I thought to be a relevant answer to a question asked by Maruli. Maruli took exception to my avatar, for reasons best known to herself, and derailed her own thread. That's fine by me, but don't attempt to paint me as the villain here; it just won't wash.
 
Nonsense. I posted what I thought to be a relevant answer to a question asked by Maruli. Maruli took exception to my avatar, for reasons best known to herself, and derailed her own thread. That's fine by me, but don't attempt to paint me as the villain here; it just won't wash.

Actually I agree. I said you didn't start anything. Maruli derailed her own post. You are not a villian and I never said you were.
 
a lot of interesting answers - but I still do not know how to best answer the the original questions put to me by a christians. I did not want to give her the impression that her religious believes are better than science. What would you reply to a christian ?

by the way, camel, I am a woman, and an avatar like yours is indecent and inappropriate in such a forum as this.

Maruli, I'm so pleased to be advised that you're a woman; it explains your hormonally driven idiocy.
 

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a lot of interesting answers - but I still do not know how to best answer the the original questions put to me by a christians. I did not want to give her the impression that her religious believes are better than science. What would you reply to a christian ?

by the way, camel, I am a woman, and an avatar like yours is indecent and inappropriate in such a forum as this.

Dogbite666 gave the kind of answer I have always used. Here is my 'long version' of what Dogbite666 had to say:

If you were standing at the north pole (I'm Canadian so I prefer to use that one!) and asked me which way is north and I told you there was none from here, would you be troubled with my answer?
If I explained to you that the cardinal directions, North, South, East and West were defined as directions on the surface of the earth, and that based on the definition there is no North of the north pole because every direction is south, would you be left with a philosophical quandary?
Would you stand at the North pole and point up into the sky and say "what is north doing over there and over there?" as you pointed around in various directions up in the sky? I would think not, since you would be attempting to use the term North outside the defined space in which that term is defined to have meaning.
So, now back to the big bang. Time is defined as a means to describe the change in position and energy of that which is contained within the universe after the big bang. By definition, time does not exist prior to the big bang.

So now, why do you insist on standing at the big bang, and pointing off in other directions asking "what is time doing over there and over there?", when you've already been told that time only has one direction at that point.. namely forward?
 
Just say "quantum foam". It's easier to say than "quantum fluctuation in de Sitter space", and gives a nice visual image of tiny little bubbles of space time that come in an out of existence until suddenly, one bubble...BANG. There we are!

Or, you could ask "what's North of the North Pole?"

But anyone seriously asking the question is probably not smart enough to appreciate the metaphor anyway.
 
By definition, time does not exist prior to the big bang.

I had never heard of this before. Is this a generally accepted theory or one that is debated and controversial? Is there any evidence that forces specialists to this claim or is it just the most plausible theory?
Is there any evidence that excludes all possibility that the Big Bang was just the turning point from contraction to expansion?
Is there any evidence that there were no other universes existing long before the Big Bang of this one?
Is there evidence that time cannot be infinite and linear?

Thanks so far for some answers to think about. I hope my questions are not too simple. My hormones did not impede me to get qualifications in other sectors but I cannot hide my ignorance in physics.
 

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