Another Antifa Call for Violence

dann said:
How many of those are undercover FBI agents?
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I'm sure some. We're not a right-wing paramilitary intent on killing civilians in a race-war, so I imagine we actually get some law enforcement attention.
 
uke2se said:
If they are Nazis, sure.



If it's Nazism, sure.

Nazism isn't just "politics I disagree with".
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Apparently you don't even consider them to be people. They are untermenshen unworthy of even basic decency like respecting their security and sanctity of their own homes.
 
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Arcade22 said:
Apparently you don't even consider them to be people. They are untermenshen unworthy of even basic decency like respecting their safety and security of their own homes.
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That's right. If they don't like it, they can stop being Nazis.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
That's right. If they don't like it, they can stop being Nazis.
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No i hope they will call the cops and that the violent extremist criminals are caught. Though i must say that I'm glad you have decided to dispensed with any pretenses of caring about peoples freedoms and rights by supporting violence against people just because of their opinions.
 
Arcade22 said:
No i hope they will call the cops and that the violent extremist criminals are caught. Though i must say that I'm glad you have decided to dispensed with any pretenses of caring about peoples freedoms and rights by supporting violence against people just because of their opinions.
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i too am glad we have an understanding.
 
Arcade22 said:
Apparently you don't even consider them to be people. They are untermenshen unworthy of even basic decency like respecting their security and sanctity of their own homes.
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How did you describe the Swedish pandemic strategy of sacrificing vulnerable senior citizens because it would be better for the economy? (which it probably wasn't)
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
There's a pretty big difference between American antifa vs European antifa, largely due to relative weakness of leftist politics in the US.

The most belligerent antifas are the most visible simply because violence catches all the attention.
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Political violence catches attention all right. You think that's unfair?

As far as I can tell, Portland's "rose city antifa" is the closet thing to an organized, black bloc in the United States, and they are most known for fighting with likewise militant right-wing extremists like Patriot Prayer or Proud Boys. Of course, antifa doesn't enjoy the same cozy relationship with the local cops that right wing terrorists do, so they have to be more cautious about how and when they use violence. Even this black-bloc group is nowhere near the size to warrant the absurd hysteria spread by right wing media.

There is a large "online antifa" community (though not organized) that engage in 100% lawful activities like exposing nazis and getting them fired or otherwise socially ostracized. They dox racist cops, they investigate and dox fascists who participate in street displays, and they track online organizations that are likely to commit acts of mass violence. This doesn't grab the same headlines as black-bloc skirmishing with neo-fascists, but it's a huge component of modern anti-fascism.
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Interesting, thanks. Are there any moderates/centrists in the community, moderate left/moderate right etc.?

I'm curious about you "wow" comment. Does leftists arming up alarm you?
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Yes.

Right wingers are armed to the teeth in this country and are constantly looking for provocation to kill their political enemies, often with the implicit blessing of law enforcement. Is arming in self defense an unreasonable response?
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(my hilite)

Generally yes. I don't have strong opinions on US weapon laws, I live in Norway. My interpretation of history is that political violence is extremely dangerous to society in general, and it can get out of hand fast.

A political faction arming up "in self defence", with obvious hyperbolic reasoning like the one highlited -

Sigh. It sounds eerily similar to the extremist-rightwing survivalists arming up for the coming of The Chrisis. I want to be careful with equivocating separate phenomenas, the extreme right vs the extreme left, they are not the same. BUT: As I'm sure you know, Breivik defended his actions by claiming self defence, against a (paraphrasing from memory) violent and barbaric muslim invasion. And the extreme left has a long history of violence. Rote Arme Fraktion comes to mind, they ended in mid 90ties. (not able to post links yet)

I'm not sure why you would think it's wise to adopt the very tactic that separates the extreme right from the extreme left the last decades. The one thing that legitimately has made the extreme right a larger threat than the extreme left - the extreme violence and the bodycount.
 
uke2se said:
We really shouldn't be normalizing our Nazi-party. 20% stupid people and racists don't make the party mainsteam.



If they are Nazis, sure.



If it's Nazism, sure.

Nazism isn't just "politics I disagree with".

"But the Sweden Democrats aren't nazis" I hear you complain. Sure, buddy. Nudge-nudge, wink-wink.
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Yes, I'm aware of the tactic of calling people nazis somehow makes political violence and assault OK. Somehow I'm not convinced.

- Your honor, I did set fire to the mans house, but it was self defense, you see he was a [fascist/nazi/marxist/sunnimuslim/Antifa/catholic/Jew/democrat/republican]!!!!

This gets all the more obvious when there is no evidence for the politician in question, Thoralf Alfsson, actually IS a nazi. I suspect "nazi" is just code for "politician with views that don't conform to my particular hard left politics".

(In Thoralf Alfsson's wiki, there is mention of a fellow Swedish politician, who in a court case had to pay damages for calling him a nazi. That would be pretty weird, if he actually was a nazi.)
 
Arcade22 said:
Apparently you don't even consider them to be people. They are untermenshen unworthy of even basic decency like respecting their security and sanctity of their own homes.
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Pretty much, yes. Why am I not allowed to? It's their whole raison-d'être.
 
powerdimer said:
Yes, I'm aware of the tactic of calling people nazis somehow makes political violence and assault OK. Somehow I'm not convinced.
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A party formed by a nazi who regularly wore nazi uniforms and had book burnings well into the mid 1990's. I don't think I'm making an unfair characterisation about them.

powerdimer said:
This gets all the more obvious when there is no evidence for the politician in question, Thoralf Alfsson, actually IS a nazi. I suspect "nazi" is just code for "politician with views that don't conform to my particular hard left politics".

(In Thoralf Alfsson's wiki, there is mention of a fellow Swedish politician, who in a court case had to pay damages for calling him a nazi. That would be pretty weird, if he actually was a nazi.)
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Why would that be weird? He's a member of the nazi-party that get really angry if you call them nazis. Say what you will about the other nazi-parties in Sweden (yes, sadly there are several), at least they are honest about themselves.
 
powerdimer said:
Political violence catches attention all right. You think that's unfair?



Interesting, thanks. Are there any moderates/centrists in the community, moderate left/moderate right etc.?



Yes.

(my hilite)

Generally yes. I don't have strong opinions on US weapon laws, I live in Norway. My interpretation of history is that political violence is extremely dangerous to society in general, and it can get out of hand fast.

A political faction arming up "in self defence", with obvious hyperbolic reasoning like the one highlited -

Sigh. It sounds eerily similar to the extremist-rightwing survivalists arming up for the coming of The Chrisis. I want to be careful with equivocating separate phenomenas, the extreme right vs the extreme left, they are not the same. BUT: As I'm sure you know, Breivik defended his actions by claiming self defence, against a (paraphrasing from memory) violent and barbaric muslim invasion. And the extreme left has a long history of violence. Rote Arme Fraktion comes to mind, they ended in mid 90ties. (not able to post links yet)

I'm not sure why you would think it's wise to adopt the very tactic that separates the extreme right from the extreme left the last decades. The one thing that legitimately has made the extreme right a larger threat than the extreme left - the extreme violence and the bodycount.
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Your hilite is not hyperbolic.

There have been numerous examples of local police coordinating with heavily armed right wing extremist groups. The police forces are heavily infiltrated by white supremacists.
 
powerdimer said:
(In Thoralf Alfsson's wiki, there is mention of a fellow Swedish politician, who in a court case had to pay damages for calling him a nazi. That would be pretty weird, if he actually was a nazi.)
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Where do you see that? Thoralf_Alfsson (Wikipedia)

The other Swedish politician had to pay 5,000 SEK for having published a picture on his blog "of Alfsson as Adolf Hitler in uniform." It doesn't say that he called him a Nazi.
... att på sin blogg ha lagt ut en bild på Alfsson som Adolf Hitler i uniform.
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uke2se said:
Pretty much, yes. Why am I not allowed to? It's their whole raison-d'être.
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Because by supporting, if not inciting, violence against people who's opinions you disagree with you have already adopted the same kind of violent extremist mindset that make Neo-Nazi's dangerous in the first place.
 
A Cop Was Filmed Telling Armed White Men To Avoid Arrest ''So We Don't Look Like We're Playing Favorites''

https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1269781398597931008

Latest example of the Oregon police coordinating with armed Proud Boys, a violent right-wing extremist group.

The right wing is armed and the police are sympathetic to their calls for violence. There is no good reason for decent people to remain unarmed. Left leaning folks should familiarize themselves with how to shoot and remain vigilant against the danger of the right wing in this country.
 
uke2se said:
A party formed by a nazi who regularly wore nazi uniforms and had book burnings well into the mid 1990's. I don't think I'm making an unfair characterisation about them.
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You think wrong. It's not that it's unfair, it's factually wrong and laughably ignorant.

But thanks for the sincere showing of support for outright political violence, and disdain for democracy. It's a useful perspective in this thread, the hard lefts authoritarian power fantasies laid bare.
 
Sorry, this is actually Powerdimer. My old pc suddenly logged on to a user I thought was deleted years and years ago, that's why i created a new user Not trying to sockpuppet ;)
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
KKK leader drives car into crowd of peaceful protestors.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ku-klux-klan-leader-drove-truck-crowd-peaceful-protesters-virginia-n1227691

The score still remains:

antifa attacks on suburbs: 0
reactionary counter-protestor violence: >0
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A black lives matter protest cost me five minutes on my drive home, so it is pretty much the same thing.*





*Not actually true, I'm still working from home. But I can pretend like it happened to make the scales even, right?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Your hilite is not hyperbolic.

There have been numerous examples of local police coordinating with heavily armed right wing extremist groups.
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Sure if you say so. Feel free to elaborate on what you're talking about.

The police forces are heavily infiltrated by white supremacists.
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If we go with the fashionable definition of nazi as "person with non-far left-politics", you'd be correct too.

If you mean actual nazis or white supremacists, maybe you should provide evidence.
 
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